Comments on: Do Mormons hate gays?

By: luvkcat

luvkcat — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:12:00 +0000

Here is what I do not understand…why in the WORLD is marriage a governmental institution if it is a religious covenant? If we are going to call the rights that two people get under the law when they sign a piece of paper as a couple “marriage,” then all CITIZENS should receive these RIGHTS under the LAW. It is unconstitutional otherwise. If a church does not agree with gay people, then they should not allow them to marry in their church or participate. The actual CEREMONY is a convenant, but the piece of paper under LAW are rights. Now I do not think the government SHOULD be involved in marriage; everyone should get civil unions or better yet, everyone should get the same rights for being born PERIOD. Let marriage be a religious institution…but if the government still wants to call it marriage, then that’s what it’s called and everyone should get the same rights. It won’t affect your ceremony. Not to mention, people are already living as postmodern families, and it is not ruining the “traditional family.” Not to mention, we did not always live as “traditional families.” The nuclear family is a fairly new concept historically–not to mention, people did not used to marry for LOVE. It was all about economics, which explains why the government is involved in marriage at all. Here is deal, let people have their rights. According to Mormonism and many Christian religions, we are given free agency. When you force people under YOUR will, then you interfering with God’s plan. How is this not OBVIOUS? When Jesus kept company with prostitutes, he did not say…I am going to make a law to keep you from sinning or you are not allowed the same rights because you are sinning…or you are going to corrupt the order of society with your sinning… No, he taught and led by example and when ASKED, he told them to sin no more and they will be forgiven. If we are to follow Christ’s example, then the Church should have NOTHING to do with Prop 8. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE NOT ONLY PROTECTS “SINNERS” IT PROTECTS ALL RELIGIONS FROM GOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE AND GIVES THEM THE FREEDOM TO WORSHIP AS THEY CHOOSE, WHICH IS IN LINE WITH THE FREE AGENCY GIVEN TO PEOPLE UNDER GOD. NOT TO MENTION, “JUDGE NOT, LESS YE BE JUDGED.” Let it go…seriously, society is not held together by the family…it’s held together by capitalism. Do you really think the CEO’s and politicians that are expected to get financial support and cater to their rich lobbyists honestly care about morality when doing business?! It is not to say that we should not stive to better our government or help others, but this world will not be perfect until Christ comes… Worry about YOUR salvation, your morality, and your family… That is what COUNTS. That is how you will be JUDGED. You do not have to support gay marriage, but you do not have to vote against it. You also do not have to allow it in your Church. But you are to allow other people their free agency so they can make the genuine choices for which they will be judged by God, not YOU.

By: Matt

Matt — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:04:00 +0000

The weirdest element to all of this is that when mormons insist they don’t hate gay people, I think they genuinely believe that. But thats not comforting to the person being hated. In fact, its down right infuriating. The members of the Third Reich didn’t think they were haters either. They genuinely believed they were doing the “right” thing by stuffing Jews into ovens. In any case, please stop trying to tell me that mormons have gay friends – whom they “love, respect and admire.” Wake up – they gay community is outraged by the mormons. No self-respecting gay person would be friends with someone who actively works to restrict our civil liberties. (by the way, just because gay marriage is not legal doesn’t mean thats the way is SHOULD be. It used to be legal to kill a mormon in the state of Missouri – you obviously don’t agree with THAT law, do you?) Dissent = freedom.To “anonymous” in AZ – I can’t believe you’re surprised that your “yes on 102″ signs were stolen or vandalized. Would you blame Rosa Parks if she stole/destroyed signs saying “yes on Blacks-in-the-back-of-the-bus”?You ARE right about one thing – you DO have the right to your opinion, but don’t expect people to see it as anything short of unadulterated bigotry. The KKK ALSO has rights – but they’re still the KKK.Also, this fight is NOT about religion. Mormons are free to hate gay marriage all they want. But gay marriage is a question of CIVIL freedoms, not religious. And don’t try to say that this country was founded on Christian principles – it wasn’t. Almost all of the founding fathers were Deists. (look it up if you need help with the definition) Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were both out and proud atheists. Abe Lincoln spoke out openly on the dangers of Christianity. They establisted the separation of Church and state for a REASON. It was partly to protect freedom of religion, but it was MAINLY to protect people FROM religion. And it looks like now is the time when people need to be protected from the MORMON Religion.

By: Tom in Lazybrook

Tom in Lazybrook — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:42:00 +0000

So does the Mormon church advocate no marriage for barren couples or the elderly? No. The reason is that their ‘defense of marriage’ is not rooted in child raising, but in pure hatred of Gays.I’m not talking about in your temples. I’m talking about in PUBLIC POLICY for non-Mormons.

By: Tom in Lazybrook

Tom in Lazybrook — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:39:00 +0000

Gee whiz..Why would anyone think that Mormons hate Gays?1) Scapegoating Gay people for any problems with straight marriages while simultaneously marrying dead people in your temples and celebrating polygamists like Brigham Young and Joseph Smith2) Kicking Gay people out of BYU 3) Refusing to treat divorce with the same hate and exclusion you reserve for Gays. Ya see… Divorce affects straight people, well just ignore that one. Well reserve the full measure of exclusion for GaysCalifornia is full of Gay ex-Mormons will universally hideous stories of their upbringing. Electroshock torture is one.Prop 8, a Mormon Amendment designed to abuse Gays, is simply a continuation of hatred of Gays by Mormons.Don’t whine as you get about 2 percent of the hatred you’ve spewed back at us. When Gays enjoy full civil rights, then we can talk.By the way, you don’t have any Gay friends. They all know you want to HURT their families. Trust me, there are people I have to be civil to, but I know they HATE me in that election booth (where it matters MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE) They may be civil, but all Gays KNOW what you are and that your number one objective is to demean abuse degrade and DESTROY their families.

By: Tim Malone

Tim Malone — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:47:00 +0000

Hi Troy,I’m not familiar with how the LDS church has been involved in zoning or tax legislation. Do you have any examples you can provide? Marriage is not a right. It is a God-given privilege that is recognized by society in law. The people of the State of California simply made it clear that the definition of marriage is what it was always intended to be – between a man and a woman.Shame on me for what? For standing up for morality and for following a prophet? I feel no shame for that. I am glad that there are still enough good people left in the State of California that understand morality and who value time-honored standards and principles that have blessed nations for centuries. Our society is based on the family.Future generations deserve the strength that comes from having a father and mother married and faithful to each other. No gay relationship can produce children naturally. Gay couples already have all the rights of a straight couple in California as if they were married – it’s the law. We just felt strongly that it is not right to redefine marriage as anything other than between a man and a woman. So do a majority of the people in California today.

By: Troy

Troy — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 12:50:00 +0000

All I know, as a gay man, that ANY legislation relating to religion to LDS, will be met with a fierce opposition. From zoning to taxes, LDS has made a stand against gay people, and we will defend ourselves against the hate. I do not agree with your lifestyle, but wouldn’t work to eliminate your rights….until now.SHAME ON YOU!!!!

By: Tim Malone

Tim Malone — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:23:00 +0000

Hi anonymous,You don't me or my son well enough to add an intelligent comment on our private discussions about how some of the world sees Mormons because of this issue. My son is simply reflecting what he reads from the sources where he gets his news and from where he forms his opinions - his friends at work.He was helping me to understand what some of his friends have been saying and what he reads in the online forums that he frequents. You don't know what my son believes so let's leave him out of this. Oh, never mind, I'm the one who brought him up so I guess he is germane to the dialog.I think my son is typical of a small percentage of the younger generation who see nothing wrong with gay sex or same-sex marriage. As I have noted in previous essays, he is not a believer in the Mormon faith and has not participated in our church for over ten years.I'll take my blinders off for a minute and tell you that yes, I can see the damage this can do to those who do not want to lose the right that they won through the courts to find some legitimacy for their sin. Gay sex is not love, or at least not the kind of love that God intended for his children to enjoy in this life.So if proposition 8 wins, it will do tremendous damage and will be a huge setback to those who have fought for equality, as they like to call it. So I can see why so many seem desperate in the acts they are committing that are actually damaging their cause. When they accuse Mormons of hate by etching things in their cars, ripping up signs, and otherwise abusing proponents of Yes on 8, they are the ones who are showing intolerance and hate.Take a look at what some tolerant people did in this essay over at Messenger and Advocate. Now take a look at what some nice loving people did to this man's car in this article at the Alliance Defense fund. Sure make me want to see things from their side - NOT!My conclusion is that some people think that Mormons hate gays because we have been so involved in supporting this Yes on 8 campaign at the request of the leaders of our church. Of course, we are not the only ones, but most Mormons go all out when their leaders ask them to do something. Don't take it personally guys. Let's wait and see what the results of the election brings.Hey, aren't the final polls supposed to be out today or tomorrow on this issue? Last I checked the numbers were up in the 60's for the Yes side. Marriage has never been regarded as a universal human or civil right. Loving and living with anyone one wants to live with are basic human rights. But marriage is actually a privilege that society bestows on whom it chooses.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:39:00 +0000

This is clearly a situation of the “son teaching his father.” Can you take off your blinders long enough to see this? Your son has clearly taken a higher road. He understands the damage his father is doing in support of Prop. 8.And you wonder why people think Mormons hate gays. Your son gets it. Ask him.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:52:00 +0000

I live in Arizona and we also have a proposition regarding the definition of marriage. It is interesting to me that I can be labeled as hating gays, (I don’t, i have a gay cousin who i love and treat no differently than my other cousins), as a bigot (I’m not, I feel that I have a right to my beliefs) or even a racist (I’m not sure how to respond to this one) because I believe differently than people who are gay or lesbian. I have had to replace my Yes on 102 sign in my front yard multiple time because it has been stolen or defaced. This only supports my main concern with legalizing same sex marriage. Namely that it is simply a tool to force acceptance of the gay and lesbian lifestyle. I don’t hate homosexuals but I don’t accept their lifestyle either in the sense that I teach my children that it’s wrong and contrary to our religious beliefs. I forsee that “acceptance” and “tolerance” will be a one way street only and I will not support anything that potentially will restrict my freedom of religion. So, I won’t support same sex marriage. To label me on the basis of what I believe and the lifestyle that I live sounds just like what gays and lesbians accuse me of doing to them. No?

By: Tim Malone

Tim Malone — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:45:00 +0000

Oh, and back to the original premise of the essay, on answering the question, "Do Mormons hate gays," I quote from Wikipedia on bigotry: "A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable."I have written previously about the way the word tolerate has been twisted to mean something that was not originally intended. I hope that leaving my blog open to comments from those who differ from me that I am providing some evidence of tolerance. I appreciate differing opinions. I have come to accept that many people identify themselves as different from my very heterosexual bias. I like to think that I am tolerant of the gay lifestyle, but I confess that I am struggling there.Yes, my religious upbringing and my faith in a God who condemns homosexuality, or at least commands that we not participate in homosexual behavior has given me a bit of a trial of my faith. One the one hand we are taught and believe that we are to love all men. On the other hand, we are taught that homosexual behavior is a sin and that the Lord does not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.I don't know why so many among the apostates have come out against the phrase, "love the sinner but hate the sin" as being hypocritical. I don't see it that way and believe that it is a scripturally correct interpretation of the way the Lord sees us as we deal with sin in our fellow man in this life. I vote the way I do because I believe that homosexuality is a sin. I do not believe that we as a society should allow marriage, which was ordained by God, to be redefined to accommodate a sinful practice.