Comments on: Mormons are brainwashed – lying for the Lord

By: A different kind of knowledge | Mormon Bloggers

A different kind of knowledge | Mormon Bloggers — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:51:38 +0000

[...] about tasting salt and this statement from Boyd K. Packer: “My friend, spiritually speaking, I have tasted salt. I am no more able to convey to you in words how this knowledge has come than you are to tell me [...]

By: Elder Packer was right about bearing testimony | Mormon Bloggers

Elder Packer was right about bearing testimony | Mormon Bloggers — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:29:12 +0000

[...] enemies of the church, many of them former members who never quite got it.

By: A different kind of knowledge | Latter-day Commentary

A different kind of knowledge | Latter-day Commentary — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:38:00 +0000

By: Elder Packer was right about bearing testimony | Latter-day Commentary

Elder Packer was right about bearing testimony | Latter-day Commentary — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:38:33 +0000

[...] enemies of the church, many of them former members who never quite got it.

By: Papa D

Papa D — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:32:00 +0000

Tim, I think the confusion is strongest among those who feel that it is impossible to KNOW anything – that it is lying to say, “I know . . .” The issue to me is how we define “know” in the Gospel context – and how that relates directly how we view bearing a testimony. Nephi said that he “knew” because of what he had “experienced”. (My paraphrase) Alma said the same thing about his vision. He said, “I know this **of myself**.” I tend to translate this as, “I know this **FOR myself**” – meaning nobody else has to know it, but I have had experiences that I simply can’t deny. The things I learned from those experiences are things I can say that **I know for myself**. I have had numerous experiences that really are impossible to explain without God being real and the Priesthood providing abnormal insight. I mean that, knowing full well the arguments of the skeptics. If I shared the details, it would be possible to reject them, but it would be impossible to say that my conclusion is not valid, logical, reasonable and possible. I believe Elder Packer was saying that we need to express those things that we believe with all our hearts – that we desire to be true. I also never read anything in the talk that said we need to exaggerate or couch things in specific ways. Bearing a testimony can be as simple as saying, “I believe with all my heart” – and it is that type of statement that can bring surety through spiritual confirmation. In velska’s case, it can be no more than the willingness to open your mouth and experience it being filled – being willing to let the Lord speak through you without anything being planned in advance, and then realizing what you said was inspired and exactly what the other person needed to hear.

By: Tim Malone

Tim Malone — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:43:00 +0000

Hi Rickety,Thanks for stopping by my blog and reading my essay written in response to Kalvin. I suspect that he was just repeating what others have said and written. I also read that entry on Wikipedia about brainwashing. I can understand the idea of social or familial pressure on children to get up and bear their testimonies. Some kids love to get up there. Others are reticent and quiet and don’t feel the desire. I can appreciate that.Some people thrive on this method of gaining a testimony – studying it out and then teaching it with the faith that the Lord will bless you with a witness as you teach it that it is true. I am one of those people. My son is not. He learns from life’s experiences. Truth is gained in different ways for different people. So I would say that not every Mormon has gone through this process described by President Packer.So that doesn’t explain why some people are faithful and live the restored gospel as taught in the LDS Church. Brainwashed? I don’t think so. Family tradition. More likely. But everyone has to decide at some point in time if they believe it and will live it. It’s hard to say you believe something if you haven’t studied it out. I think the beauty of President Packer’s method is that it accelerates the process of gaining a testimony. It works for me. Does it work for everyone who tries it? Open question…

By: Rickety

Rickety — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:21:00 +0000

I had someone once tell me that the only reason I believe in Joseph Smith was that I was taught about him as a kid. I replied, “I had never heard of him until I was 21 but when I read his testimony I joined the Church.” I think that some people are afraid of the truth of the restoration of the Gospel so they have to put you down anyway they can. As far as brainwashing is concerned consider:The idea is to break down the psychic integrity of the individual with regard to information processing, with regard to information retained in the mind, and with regard to values. Chosen techniques would include dehumanizing of individuals by keeping them in filth, sleep deprivation, partial sensory deprivation, psychological harassment, inculcation of guilt, and group social pressure (Wikipedia).When I lived in England the only method that could have been used would be inculcation of guilt. Group social pressure was exerted to leave the Mormons (including from family). To cause someone to go against their values would stress them so much that it would show. Mormons do not exhibit the symptoms of brainwashing. So brainwashing isn’t really viable as an explanation as to why Mormons believe as they do. Any other explanations?

By: velska

velska — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:05:00 +0000

I have a precious example of the principle. As you know, I didn’t grow up with teachings of the gospel, and I only got the foundations of a testimony as a 19-year old when I was learning about the Restoration.I was set apart as a missionary almost exactly two years after my baptism. I thought I had a fairly solid testimony. As I got more experience about sharing the gospel with others, I realized that I felt my own testimony every time, even if people did not accept it.Then, almost a year into my mission, one day a woman cut me off as I was introducing myself. Her words, “Jesus Christ is dead!” were almost shocking to me, so filled with disdain they were. I was a pretty temperamental guy when I was young, so my instinct was to tell her something quite sarcastic. Instead, I said, “but I know Jesus Christ lives”.That moment has been a milestone for me. I can still feel the awesome spiritual uplift in that moment. It was not a vague, warm, fuzzy feeling that I felt. It is impossible to describe, but the impact on the woman was remarkable. She was in the middle of slamming her door, very hostile, when I said that, and her motion stopped and she was drained of hostility. She looked me in the eye and I could see a conflict of feelings behind. She eventually decided to close the door, but she did it slowly, softly, and kept looking me in the eye all the way. She felt the Spirit, too, but she was not ready to let all her defenses fall down. Who knows what she had been through.Now I was not lying in that statement. Or at least it was a statement of my heartfelt conviction, that he lives. But I was taken by surprise by how strongly that simple sentence impacted me, my companion and her.I have ever since been looking for a good way to explain that experience. How strongly I felt that there is nothing I would not give up to keep that sensation with me. Sometimes I think the gospel is totally logical. But it does require that “leap of faith”.

By: Steven B

Steven B — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:49:00 +0000

Tim, You and I do not always agree. But I must compliment you on this little essay. You’ve summed up the process very well. I totally concur.