The powers for good and evil in this world are both real, and both have only as much power over us as we allow. So we should look for the good, not the evil.

And, of course, the Devil would not come out and say who he is and what he wants until we are clearly fully committed. It is his MO to cloak his goals in wholesome guises.

Ether 12:6 says: Ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. We have to just do the good things we need to do and not concern us too much about what and how the adversary does. It doesn’t hurt to have some awareness, though.

The question that Crusty and I have been discussing is more about modern-day evidences. While I am a whole-hearted believer of the doctrine, I think Crusty is looking for empirical evidence. I wonder if modern documented examples, other than anecdotal, really exist in the LDS community. I suspect they are too sacred to share. Thank you Nathan for sharing yours.

I wrote previously about another such occurrence shared by our local institute instructor, a former bishop, as he described his encounter with a young man possessed of an evil spirit. I did not share details in the post, but I can tell you that the recitation of the story left no doubt in my mind that it was real.

Also, you might be interested in an article by Alonzo Gaskill (BYU) on Satan’s physicality. If I can track down where it was published, I’ll let you know.

I think it might be that different cultures search for truth in different ways, and so Heavenly Father answers them through the means they most readily look to. Likewise, different cultures have weaknesses in different areas, and so Satan exploits those weaknesses wherever they are (perhaps materialism or intellectual pride in the first-world, and a tendency to dabble in the occult in the third-world).

I have personally cast out an evil spirit; I have also been present when another person cast out a spirit. Both were faith-building experiences. If hearing that makes us feel icky or creepy, then we’re approaching it the wrong way, like when people feel dread when they talk about the Second Coming, which should be a joyous topic.

Mental illness and possession may in some cases coexist. Rx drugs are capable of shutting down our communication with the Spirit. Isn’t it possible that drugs quiet our demons as well?

I loved that story and what you described in your conversation with your wife. I totally agree. Why don’t more people take personal responsibility for their actions? I think you have nailed why it is that we don’t find more of the Brethren talking about this. You’re right.

What does it matter if we know for ourselves that there are or aren’t devils and demons running around trying to influence us to do evil? The important things is how we respond to the temptations in the world around us, whether we believe they come from our own selves or from evil spirits.

Thanks for the ongoing dialog.

I think the devil simultaneously gets too much and not enough credit. Meaning: a lot of people don’t believe in a personal devil, and thus don’t give him credit/blame for what he actually does. At the same time, a lot of us are willing to blame bad things on him when it’s really either our own choices, or just the consequences of living in a fallen world.

I’m honored that you have visited my blog. I have read so many comments from you over the years going back to Zion’s list in the early 90’s when I lurked there. I’m encouraged to read of your recover and pray the Lord’s blessings on you as you work through the difficulties you have experienced in recent months.

I hope that these thoughts from President Faust will guide our discussion of things that go bump in the night. As Velska noted, it is not wise to get too caught up in the things of the devil. However, President Faust was not one to dismiss the effect of the adversary or his followers in the lives of the Saints. We cannot serve the Lord without offending the devil.

I have found that the closer I try to conform my life with what I believe to be the will of the Lord for me, the more clearly I see the influence of the adversary in the world around me, especially in the things that are becoming more and more acceptable, through political correctness and smooth positioning by those who are advocating the causes of evil.

Do they come out and say that they are trying to make it easier for the evil spirits to find a home? Of course not. But the resulting effect is obvious to those who are familiar with the signs of possession. Perhaps we should get away from that word because of the ridicule and mocking it elicits. The spirit of discernment is a gift that can be developed with prayer and taking notice of the tutoring of the spirit in this area.

I wish more bloggers would read this talk from President Faust and accept it for what it is – a warning of how the devil and his followers find homes among the saints. Alas, I remind myself that 80% of those who write in our LDS blogs do not agree with this clear direction from a humble follower of Jesus Christ who saw clearly from afar the events of our day and the battles in which we find ourselves engaged in this new media.

Many years ago I got a real education about how this doctrine of devils is real and just how prevalent it is even among the Later-day Saints. You will find these demons hanging around those who are involved in drugs, porn, sexual immorality, homosexuality and murder, even in the form of a game. I know I just offended a ton of people, but think about why the prophets warn us about these very things so often. It’s not just good advice, it’s for the safety of our very souls.

I’ll get off my soapbox now. This is a subject about which I am passionate, having seen the devastating effects possession first-hand. The effects can be life-long and extremely difficult to eradicate. Anybody who has seen a family member slowly commit suicide through drugs and sexual immorality knows of what I speak. These poor children do not walk alone after they let the demons in because of their poor choices, though innocent at first.

All it takes is sitting in a few disciplinary councils listening to the sad tales of those who have made their way back after the loss of their membership to realize that devils and demons are real. The torment of those who suffer their companionship is real. It takes real faith and real repentance to remove the effects and sometimes the scars remain as painful reminders of the power of those demons.

Oh, they are real. I promise you they are real. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. Just because you haven’t personally had one decide to take up his habitation with you, doesn’t mean that it hasn’t happened to others. The scripture where the Lord teaches about the seven additional spirits coming to the man who kicked out the first is a very real scenario. I know this.

By the way, Jim, this was not directed at you. Your link to President Faust’s BYU talk on your website simply reminded me of how long the prophets have been trying to help us understand that this is a real battle. Thanks again to anonymous for the testimony and strong statements to the effect that of course the doctrine is true. They can and do exist and their influence is manifest every day in the world around us, sometimes even through those we know and love dearly.

The funny thing is, just today I responded on the ambulance to a 9 year old inside of a grocery store, who ‘looks like he’s possessed or something’ (as described by a Kroger employee who met us at the curb). We found a kid laying on the ground, being held down by two adults, kicking, swearing, and promising to kill all of us. We responded to this same kid about a year ago. He gets like this everytime he gets off his psych meds (or everytime his mother sells his meds on the street). Last time, all it took was some Benadryl to subdue the evil spirits (why don’t Catholic Priests just carry Benadryl?). This time we had to take him in, since he was threatening to hurt people.

It’s not that I don’t believe that it’s possible that there are evil spirits roaming the earth, trying to mess with us; it’s just that I personally don’t have any reason to believe it. In other words, I remain open to the possibility, but for now, I’m not convinced.

More importantly, I don’t see much relevance in believing that we are being influenced by evil spirits. In my opinion, we are our own evil spirits, more than anything else. We find ways to tempt ourselves with more stuff than evil spirits ever could imagine, in a much more persuasive way. Ultimately, whether evil goblins are involved in our decisions or not, we make the final decision. The real focus should be ourselves and our weakness to temptations, no matter where they come from.

My wife and I were just talking about this the other day. I asked her, “why do you think Mormons like to mention the devil so much, and his influence in their decisions…what’s their motivation for blaming so much on Satan…why not just talk about the real problem…ourselves and our OWN desires to do naughty things?”

I wondered if it was almost a way of denying culpability, to some extent…like, ‘I’m not THAT bad…these ideas come from Satan, not me…Satan is working more on me than most people.’ (While everyone else silently thinks, ‘that’s possible, I guess…I’ve heard of that, but most of the time, when I do bad things, I talk myself into it.’)

Tim, I’ll take a copy of that intriguingly mysterious story…maybe it’ll be just the thing I need… CrustyAmbulanceDriver@GMail.com