Wresting the Keys of the Kingdom


KeysOfTheKingdomThe Lord woke me at 3am the other morning. I wasn’t sure what He wanted. I prayed, felt led to search and ponder some recent email communications. He asked me to respond to a good brother with whom I had been conversing about the sacrament. The dialog had turned to keys. I wrote him an email. The Lord told me to make it public. I did not heed the prompting. It kept returning.

This morning the Lord woke me at 2am. Okay. I get it. In a Fast and Testimony meeting a few years ago, a ward member got up and said, “I’m supposed to tell you …” Even though I wasn’t there, I can promise you that testimony was discussed in bishopric meeting. You don’t use those kinds of words in the LDS Church from the pulpit these days. Why? He was not in leadership.

Tradition Shall No Longer Rule

I guess I’m still struggling to shed years of tradition about how messages from the Lord are to be delivered. In the LDS Church, you don’t get up and say, “I have a message the Lord asked me to share.” It goes back to D&C 28:1-7 where Oliver was admonished in verse six, “And thou shalt not command him who is at thy head.” It also relates to the seer stone incident (D&C 28:11-13).

Well, things have changed. I’m not used to having the Lord ask me to do something and share it in a public manner as anything other than my opinion. I have a need to repent. This post is an act of repentance for me. The voice of the Lord was clear and direct, even emphatic. It is not my place to judge if it is appropriate or not. I am not to assume it might offend. My desire is to please the Lord.

Listening to the Voice of the Lord

This is the response I wrote to this good brother. He lives in California. He has contributed a lot to the FAIR website over the years, presented at FAIR conferences. I suspect he is the author of the recent postings on that site related to Denver’s book, Passing the Heavenly Gift, as well as several of the entries about Denver’s blog. I was wondering if someone would respond to those.

Thanks for the ongoing dialog. I appreciate your response to my point about keys. I assume you know my background, having been a member of the LDS Church from the time my family joined when I was five years old until just last month, when I resigned at age 57. Keys, Keys, Keys. I’ve heard it all my life. I’ve taught it from the pulpit as a High Councilor and in the classroom as a High Priest Group Leader or Gospel Doctrine Teacher. I’m fairly certain I know the church’s position on keys. I’m more interested in what the Lord has to say to me about keys. If we can agree on the definition: keys open things and can be either knowledge or authority – you tell me which way you lean – then I’d like to know why you say Denver’s claim that the Lord wrested the keys from the LDS Church is false doctrine.

Actually, I suppose I would prefer to focus on how we can each know the truth for ourselves. I know this is a fundamental basic of Mormonism 101 but it applies to this most important of claims. I don’t care about others who have made such a claim. I don’t know them. I do know Denver – a little. I have read his books, studied his blog postings, attended his lectures and, most importantly, prayed incessantly for the past two and a half years (since February 2012) about what he has shared. According to my Bishop and Stake President I have been deceived. According to your words, Denver Snuffer has been led by Satan in his proclamations. I’m sure you know he said the following in the Phoenix / Mesa lecture. I was there with my wife. We both heard it. I was thrilled. Carol was not.

“The Lord has said to me in His own voice, ‘I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you.’ Therefore, I want to caution those who disagree with me, to feel free, to feel absolutely free to make the case against what I say. Feel free to disagree, and make your contrary arguments. If you believe I err, then expose the error and denounce it. But take care; take care about what you say concerning me for your sake, not for mine. I live with constant criticism. I can take it. But I do not want you provoking Divine ire by unfortunately chosen words if I can persuade you against it.”

Now, I don’t know about you, but I have never heard anyone, at least not to my recollection, be they leader – local or general – or regular member, who has EVER said the Lord spoke to them and made such a declaration. When Carol heard this, she turned to me, with obvious annoyance, even anger in her voice and said, “He makes himself to be equal to Joseph Smith.” Someone later told me it would be more appropriate to say he made himself equal to Abraham (Genesis 12:3). In any event, it was at that moment, even though I already had prayed and received numerous witnesses to my soul about Denver’s teachings, I felt the spirit of the Lord whisper to me, “This man is authorized to speak for the Lord. He has keys.”

You know, I’m not so sure we need to rehash what Joseph said, or what Denver said. I only care about what the Lord said. When the Lord tells me something, I sit up and take notice. When the Lord whispers to me, I listen and I take action. That’s why I was baptized – as a witness to the Lord I accepted the message delivered by his messenger, Denver. I feel to bless Denver, and do so in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now you tell me he has been deceived by Satan. Wow. That goes so contrary to what I have felt as I have read his books and have carefully studied his witness of the Savior. I can tell you the teachings of this man have brought me closer to Jesus Christ than the words of any LDS Prophet.

Charles, we don’t need to read everything written against Denver on FAIR or review what Watcher has written in his reviews. If we want to continue this dialog, the focus needs to be on personal revelation to your soul and mine. If you can say the Lord has told you “in His own voice,” that Denver is deceived of Satan when I can tell you the Lord has told me “in His own voice” that Denver is authorized to speak on behalf of the Lord, then there is no point in continuing this dialog. Help me understand how you know the voice of the Lord. I would be more than pleased to discuss my experiences with the voice of the Lord. But if you’re going to curse Denver Snuffer, I don’t want to continue this dialog. What say ye?

I have not heard back from D. Charles Pyle. When I awoke at 2am this morning, in addition to posting my response above, I had an email waiting for me from Keith Henderson. You remember Keith. He was the man who stood at the end of the Mesa lecture and sealed it in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. In his email, he gave me permission to share the following:

The Witness of Keith Henderson

Bishop B——- & others who may read: (I have elected to leave out the bishop’s name.)

I can no longer consider myself in line or in agreement with many of the tenets or “doctrine” of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it exists today.  The Church has, in my opinion, moved itself so far from the original idea of the Restoration, and the pure Doctrine of Christ, as restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith, as to be almost un-recognizable to me.

Those things that are particularly offensive to me, and I feel to the Holy Spirit also, are: (See 1-4 below)

1.  The requirement to espouse a belief in and follow a man as though he is equal to God, or as though he can stand between me and God and arbitrate my salvation.  This is an unauthorized addition to the pure Doctrine of Christ as revealed to us by Nephi, Christ Himself, and Joseph, wherein the scripture says anyone adding to His doctrine is not of Christ, but is against Him, and therefore it follows that anyone believing in such an unauthorized addition makes them also against Christ, and not of His church. (See D&C 10: 57-70.  See also 2 Ne. 31: 5 through 2 Ne 32: 6.  Also 3 Ne. 11: 31-49.)  I believe in the scriptures and not in any such additions by other men.

I have in the past sustained Thomas S. Monson as the man who fills the seat entitled President of the High Priesthood or President of the Church, and have offered my prayers in behalf of him and his counselors, in faith and confidence as required by scripture (see D&C 107: 22).  I have offered these prayers that he would measure up, and be sustained by the Lord in the great responsibilities and requirements of this holy office.

When the Church began requiring me to sustain the First Presidency as prophets, seers, and revelators; presumably using the instruction in D&C 107: 92 where it says, “…And to be like Moses; yea to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church;”  I complied, believing, and understanding this to be descriptive of a hope, or ambition, not as an office, and to be given as gifts to them, if God willed to do so.  I never did presume that sustaining them as prophets, seers, and revelators, empowered them to make the claim to possess these gifts in the absence of God bestowing these things upon them.  So I waited for God’s hand to vindicate the expectancy, never thinking that by merely voting I could elevate a mere man to possess what is God’s right alone to give.

It now has become mandatory that I sustain those of the First Presidency as though these gifts are an office, never considering that perhaps the gifts have not been qualified for.  I will not continue to raise my hand to sustain men who never reveal, never prophecy, never demonstrate seership, nor who never translate.  And if any man has these gifts, he does not need my vote to vindicate his power before God, nor does my sustaining him vindicate his claims.  Rather than requiring me to sustain a man’s claims by my vote, perhaps you should require me to vote on the visible and tangible fruits of his claims, and whether I would have them binding on me by my part in the common consent.   I, however, do have a testimony of Joseph Smith demonstrating all these gifts by their fruits, thereby qualifying for my sustaining vote.

I have found it way more profitable to follow and rely upon my Savior, Jesus Christ, than to follow President Monson.  Actually I have yet to find a requirement in the scriptures stating that I have any obligation to follow any man, but I have found plenty of commandments requiring me to follow Jesus Christ.  I do not follow these men, nor will I continue to sustain them as currently required, in that I am required to say they hold all the keys of the Gospel on the earth.  I do not believe they do.  Further I do not believe they [the leaders] or you [their subservients], when you ask this question as part of the recommend interview, can give a delineated list of what these keys are.  Perhaps a list would be helpful, then I could know what is meant, and exactly what I’m subscribing to.  Others may choose to believe otherwise or however they please.

I think that for myself I will rather believe what it says in D&C 76: 99-100, that those who say they are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas, or of John, or Moses, or of Elias, or of Esaias, or of Isaiah, or of Enoch, or even of Thomas S. Monson; that they who say they are of one or another, or of the whole lot of these, qualify themselves as belonging only in a Telestial Glory.  I don’t want that for myself, and don’t think you should want that for me, or for any other, either.  Instead I will continue as I have come to believe, and as it says in 2 Nephi 9: 41-42,

“O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One.  Remember that his paths are righteous.  Behold the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.  And whoso knocketh, to him will he open…”

In other words, I do not believe that the First presidency can or should speak to God, on my personal behalf.  I do not believe the Twelve Apostles can or should speak to God, on my personal behalf.  I will speak to God directly, in the name of my Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ, for and on behalf of my own self, and let Him whose right it is, arbitrate my condition with God, thank you.  The Children of Israel begged Moses to speak to God for them, and not require that they personally speak to God for themselves, and for such a revolution they brought judgment upon themselves containing much less than the fullness of the priesthood, as was God’s original intent.  Can you imagine that?!

“If the children of Israel in that day, were cursed by God because they said Moses must talk to God and not themselves, how much greater must be the damnation upon those today who say, you must not talk to God, because we have one who does so for you!  Who preach that “you are not entitled to receive anything beyond the bonds of your own limited position or calling, in this beehive we’ve constructed!” Damnable heresy!  Doctrines of devils!  Propounded by those who are purveyors of a false priestcraft!  Unauthorized by God! Unsanctioned by Him!  They suffer not themselves to enter in and would hedge up the way for me if I gave heed to them.”

Also I do not find anywhere in scripture, nor do I believe there is any kind of requirement to sustain the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators, or that they hold the keys of the Kingdom of God.  Nor do I believe that any of these above named men and in particular the Church President, are protected by God, in that they cannot do, or speak falsely, or lead others astray, because God will not allow it, or take them away first, or whatever.  For me to believe that, requires me to believe that God has set aside the agency of these men which I do not believe.  Others may think however they like, according to their own knowledge.

2.  The idea that any man, be he prophet or not, can arbitrarily change any scripture or doctrine or ordinance given by God to the Prophet Joseph Smith without direct revelation by God dictating the change, and the common consent vote of the membership making such a revelatory change binding upon the body.

There are too many instances where this has occurred for me to list all, so I will just use a couple as examples:

A.  For example D&C 89, commonly called the Word of Wisdom.  The revelation says at the beginning, “To be sent greeting, not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom…”  It has, however, been elevated (actually changed, not elevated) to a commandment, and made a “constraining” requirement for entry into the temple.  However, not all the revelation in this section is considered in this vein, only verses 5-9.  You tell me it is a commandment that I either abstain from these specified items or I will be “constrained” from attending the temple, where you otherwise say my “spiritual” salvation can be assured.  This revelation tells me, however, that these things are the will of God in regard to my “temporal” salvation, (verse 2) and says nothing concerning them affecting my spiritual salvation.  All other parts of the revelation, and whether or not I obey or disobey, don’t have any bearing on my worthiness.  I can eat anything, healthy or otherwise, and it means nothing.  But let alcohol or tobacco touch these lips, and I will be disqualified from almost everything, and especially the temple, wherein you say my salvation lies.

Has common sense taken leave of us?  I know of no place where further revelation changing this original revelation to a commandment is recorded, and know of no instance in which changes were voted on by common consent to be binding upon the body of the saints.  It was done by fiat, by a man, much later than its origination, and now I’m required to just bow and say Okee Dokee.  This is not for me.  I do not believe God works in any such manner as this.  I believe this to be the precepts of men mingled with scripture.  I believe, further, this whole section to be a “principle, with a promise,” (verse 3) and one of those items which Joseph meant when he said, “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.”  If a mere man can change God’s word on a whim, or even for what he considers a good reason, without God’s intervention commanding him to do so, then all scripture is suspect and only confusion can reign.  These are my thoughts and the religion I desire.  Others may think and desire whatever they like.

B.  Also for instance, the changing of the wording of the prayers on the Sacrament.  Every scriptural instance such as, D&C 20: 79; Moroni 5: 2; and the example given in 3 Nephi 18: 8, all tell us that “wine” is the emblem of His blood and you find if you look closely enough, that even though the Lord told Joseph, in one instance, as he went to procure wine from someone whom the Lord knew to be an enemy, that “It mattereth not what you eat or drink,” he never made any allowance for a change in the wording of the prayers.  By the way, Joseph returned home from that incident, and with Emma, Newell Knight, and His wife, and John Whitmer,  made a “wine” of their own preparation.  Water was never used. (see D&C 27: 2-4; also HC 1: 106-108.)   Again, where is the Lord’s authorization for the word change in the sacrament prayers, and where is the record of the common consent concurrence by the membership making it binding on the saints?  Do we think these things don’t matter to the Lord?  I for one, think they do. Others may think how they like.

C.  And one more example.  I have been a full tithe and offerings payer most all of my adult life.  I have felt confidence that my offerings were being used as I directed within the categories offered upon the tithing slip, and beyond that I felt it was indicative of my faith that I allow the use of my paid funds to be administered however the committee on the disposition of the tithes decided was appropriate within those categories.  Then all of a sudden a spurious and unsettling statement showed up on the tithing slip which says, “Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church’s property and will be used at the Church’s sole discretion to further the Church’s overall mission.”

Now I have no guarantee that any of the funds I designate in the titled categories on the slip will be used as I thought or desired they be used.  My desire has simply been wiped out of the equation by a legalese statement making my money the “Corporation Sole’s” money, and he (President Monson, the church’s sole owner) will damned well use it however he pleases.  Not on my watch he won’t!  Not with my money he won’t!  I will take charge of my own tithing and fast offerings and disburse and care for the poor among and around me as I’m commanded.  And others can pray and pay, and do as they like.

I further find out that huge investments are being made, and increased, in land holdings, cattle operations, fruit and nut farms, banks, communication facilities, etc., and that mega-malls and other “for profit” concerns are being built using the tithing funds.  I can hear the screams now.  “No! No! We are not using tithing funds, but only the investment income and profits we generate from all the investments we make.  No tithing is being used.”  Ye vipers!  Have you not read in Matthew 25: 14-27, the parable of the talents?  If so, you do not understand its meaning!  The man who receives one talent buries that talent and when the Master requires an accounting he says, “I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed: And I was afraid and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.  His Lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou newest that I reap where I sowed not, and gathered where I have not strewed:  Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.”

In other words He owns it.  He owns all of it.  He owns the interest, He owns the investment.  He owns it all and it is “His Tithing.”  And there is nothing that is generated from tithing that is not tithing, thus making it applicable to the requirements for tithing.   In the parable there is no such thing as “investment income.”  And have you (meaning the church leaders) shut your eyes and are you blind to the condemnation Nephi heaped upon us when he said, “Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their [our] churches have become corrupted, and their [our] churches are lifted up; because of pride are they [we] puffed up.  They [we] rob the poor because of their [our] fine sanctuaries; they [we] rob the poor because of their [our] fine clothing; and they [we] persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they [we] are puffed up.” (2 Nephi 28: 12-13. Insertions are mine.)  Who exactly did you think Nephi was speaking about?  Do you not know that the Book of Mormon is prophecy rather than history?  I personally cannot condone this use of my tithing money in this way, and will not participate any longer in this fraudulent use of the Lord’s money.

Then, the lack of financial accountability to the membership is another whole matter which I deplore, but will not go into other than to say it is a shame on your [the leader’s] part that you do not provide the required accountability and that you seek deep to hide your counsels from the sheep you are shearing [and the Lord].  And it is a shame on our [the member’s] part that we don’t refuse you our common consent, because you don’t provide the scripturally required accountability with clarity.

3.  The restructuring of the priesthood, and the correlating of everything to it.

If there is one proof that there is no effective priesthood within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is the hierarchal structuring of the priesthood, and the correlating of all offices, programs, policies, doctrine, and teaching beneath the umbrella of one man’s priesthood.  By doing this you [again, the leadership] have negated the priesthood instruction Joseph Smith gave as D&C 121: 34-37.  You have, by making a hierarchal structure such as this, built into the priesthood system “control, dominion, and compulsion.”  Now I fully understand that this works well for a “for profit” organization, but in the Lord’s church it is forbidden.  It furthermore is forbidden upon penalty of forfeiture of priesthood authority and power.  In the instruction it says,

“That they [the rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control, dominion, or compulsion upon the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, amen to the priesthood or authority of that man.”

Now the scripture is written on a singular basis, but you [the church leaders] have managed to perpetrate this unrighteousness en mass.  A hierarchal structure such as this is all about control, and dominion, and is fertile ground for compulsion.  So I ask you, where in this church can priesthood be found?  Well, to answer my own question; it can be found in persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and love un-feigned, by kindness, and pure knowledge, without hypocrisy, and without guile. (see D&C 121: 41-42.)  Isn’t it interesting that some of our wives are found abounding in these [priesthood] things, while we [the men] are trying to garner to ourselves more control and dominion, and a higher seat, and consequently lose priesthood power, and authority.

All Priesthood power is found only in connecting ourselves to heaven.  You might even say, only by connecting ourself to the power of heaven, or in other words connecting ourselves to Jesus Christ.  Fortunately some few have been able to do this, and by so doing have garnered to themselves a priesthood recognized in heaven: even as it says in JST Genesis 14: 29, “And it [this priesthood] was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.”  This is able to be done because, as I quoted before from 2 Nephi 9: 41, “God, the Holy One of Israel is the keeper of the gate and employeth no servant there.”  I would hope more of us would try it.  But then, I hope primarily without much faith, because, “few there be that find it.”

4.  That those we call prophets have caused the earth to be defiled under the inhabitants thereof by altering and changing the ordinances.

“They have transgressed the law, changed the ordinances, and broken the everlasting covenant.”(Isaiah 24: 5.)  Furthermore, Joseph Smith said, “Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed.” (TPJS p.308.)  Now tell me how many times in your lifetime have you seen the ordinances in the temple change?  This will be dependent upon how old you are; for changes, alterations, subtractions, additions, changes to format, and changes to clothing, have been going on for well over a hundred years.

“Into the darkness that prevails in the minds of men who instigate or authorize changes to the ordinances, enters the devil with such arguments as: “Why do it that way?  It really doesn’t matter or mean anything.  It is arcane and outdated.  It really doesn’t matter as long as you continue to have faith in Christ.”  [That particular lie is very effective because it allows the person to presume they have faith, when in fact they haven’t faith sufficient to obey Christ].”  Continuing on with the lies: “People will get more out of the changes if we make them.  Our numbers will increase.  What we change isn’t important anyway.  If it were important, we would know that, and since it doesn’t seem important to us, and because our polling data shows it is not important to those who attend, it must, in fact, not be important.  Change is proof that God is still leading us.”  …And other such arguments and persuasions from our adversary.  And all that has happened  by making changes to the ordinances is we have been cheated out of God’s gift to us, and we have been carefully led down to hell.  I want no part of this anymore, either.  Others are free to choose their own course.

Now, after all this, my testimony is:

I believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ.  I believe that Joseph Smith was and is the Prophet of this Dispensation of the Restoration of all Things.  I believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God.  And I believe in the many other things Joseph received, which we as a Church have cast off as either not understandable or worthless. [i.e. The Lectures on Faith]. I believe in these revelations and in all the revelations which he wrote, and others yet to come, whether to myself, or to others whom He [Christ] will call as His servants.  In fact, I believe God has called a Servant to speak His words in this our very own day;  one, in fact, who does speak in the name of the Lord God, and gives His words to us.  I believe that Denver C. Snuffer Jr. is that servant and stands as an Abinadi or a Samuel on the wall, or as a Lehi required by God to preach a message to Idol worshipping Jerusalem.  And I believe that many will try to kill him or run him out, or destroy the word which God speaks through him.  I believe that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to come again on the earth and much is available today because of the translations and revelations of Joseph, and also now again, because of the words of Jesus Christ being spoken to us, in today’s part of the Restoration, through the many writings and revelations and talks of this Denver C. Snuffer Jr..  I believe that the fullness of the priesthood is available to anyone who qualifies and receives it by the voice of Jesus Christ, under the direction of the Father.  I do believe there is much worth yet in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in that its crippled ordinances, even now still point the way to knowledge which can be received for real.  And most of its people are kind and wonderful and many are my dear friends, but they do not rise up because they don’t know what has happened, and what is available, and simply where to find it.  I do not, however, believe that the church or its leaders or any other man can provide salvation for any man or woman, and that to the extent we think they can, we engage in idolatry, and move in proximity away from He through whom salvation comes.

In consequence of this testimony I will obey the will of the Lord in:

Seeking for His continual personal administration.
Seeking for Zion and its establishment.
Participating with and be-friending any individual or group I see fit, whether they be atheist, agnostic, lgbt, apostate, excommunicated or antagonist toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or even if they love the Mormons.
Speaking what I view as truth to whomever I please or am commanded, or to whomever will listen.
Holding study groups in my home on any subject I choose.
Attending study groups in other’s homes upon invitation.
Administering my own tithing and offerings. (See seeking for Zion above.)
Worshipping my God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and according to the will of His Holy Spirit upon me.
Influencing my family in my beliefs.
Influencing others in my beliefs.

At this point, I definitely want to state that no part of this account of my beliefs constitute in any way the resignation of my membership from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I am simply exercising by right and claim that all men should be encouraged and allowed to believe and worship how, where, or what they may, and that I should be allowed to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience.  The beliefs of a man, according to Joseph Smith, do not determine his goodness nor his worthiness.  It is our acceptance and obedience to the scriptures and ordinances which we have all received which should dictate, and not any manual made up by men.

I will understand your desire to exercise your control and dominion over me, and will even tolerate moderate attempts at coercion.

I would like to invite you to exercise your priesthood in this matter, in the Lord’s way.  Threats will not sway me.  Sanctions you might try to impose will mean nothing to me.  Even ex-communication is not a daunting thing to me.  I have a priesthood, and an assignment in that priesthood.  It comes from a source you can neither influence nor abrogate.  You can bless yourselves in how you treat me, and my seemingly, rather unbelievable views, or you can condemn yourselves in the process of your actions; so I would advise you to rely rather heavily on the will of the Lord in any of your matters regarding this.

Sincerely
Keith M. Henderson
October 8, 2014

A Few Final Thoughts

If I were Keith’s Bishop I would be hesitant to act. We can be certain this letter has been seen by Keith’s Stake President, Area President, probably a member of the Twelve and possibly the First Presidency. I presume the Church does not want bad publicity right now, especially after excommunicating the wife of a fellow blogger last Sunday. I can understand why Adrian was disciplined but wonder why they excommunicated his wife in the same council, simply for being his wife and standing by his side. I also wonder what will happen to Keith. What do you think?

Preserving the Restoration


MormonismDividedMormon history is full of breakoff groups, splinter groups, divisions, and all kinds of off-shoots. Most of them have been failures. Tell me why you think this new movement will be different.

First, let’s be clear I’m no spokesperson for this movement. I’m not even sure you can classify it as a movement. There is no leader. This is no organized church. It is simply a group of believers.

But you base your beliefs on Mormonism.

Yes, the majority of what we believe was at one time taught in Mormonism.

Okay, so you’re a group of former Mormons…

No, we believe we’re still Mormons – even those who have left the LDS Church.

Fine, so you consider yourselves Mormons. What sets you apart from other groups who have left the Mormon Church – the fundamentalists for example? Do you believe in Polygamy?

I’ll bet some do, but I don’t. Even though I accept section 132 as doctrine, I have no intention of practicing plural marriage.

Why is that, especially if you accept section 132?

If there’s any one thing that unites this diverse group of believers, it’s a message that was delivered throughout the Mormon corridor over the past year or so (Sep 2013 to Sep 2014) in a series of lectures.

You’re referring of course to Denver Snuffer and his teachings.

Yes. One of those lectures – delivered in St George – was aimed particularly at the subject of polygamy. Included in the message was the mandate that plural marriage be abandoned.

So you don’t consider yourself a fundamentalist movement.

I suppose it depends on how you define fundamentalism. If you’re referring to the multiple groups who practice polygamy, mainly based in Utah, you are correct. We don’t feel the need to keep polygamy alive as they do. In fact, most of us are still members of the LDS Church.

Really … but you aren’t.

No, I resigned.

Why is that?

I had been accused of apostasy by my local leaders. It was only a matter of time before I would have been excommunicated. In fact, many of my friends, individuals who have studied and accepted the message delivered by this man we consider the Lord’s servant in the last days have been excommunicated for apostasy.

The Lord’s servant …How do you know this? I mean, how do you communicate?

Come on. We live in the information age. We have websites, blogs, Facebook groups, email lists and cell phones. We keep in touch with each other. Many are organized in small groups.

Are you a member of a group?

Only on the Internet … There are simply not enough people who believe as I do here in Southern California to meet on a regular basis. We are spread too far out. However, I can tell you there are many groups in Utah, Idaho and Arizona who meet each week, and sometimes during the week.

Is there a directory of these groups?

Yes. But as you can imagine, many wish to keep their groups secret and private.

Why is that?

Hello. They are still members of the LDS Church.

Okay. So this is a clandestine movement. They are afraid of the Mormon Church.

Yes, I believe that’s an accurate statement. Some are afraid, some aren’t. Many more are coming out in the open about their beliefs. They are inviting their family members, friends and neighbors to join them.

You say they meet on a regular basis. Why?

… to partake of the sacrament, to pray, to study the scriptures, to strengthen each other.

Just like a church…

I suppose. Small fellowships or communities would be a better description. Remember, there’s no hierarchy. They – we – consider ourselves seekers desirous to be members of the Church of the Firstborn, the Church of the Lamb of God.

I’m certain you don’t mean one of the groups that use those names, especially in Utah.

Correct. We refer to the Church of the Firstborn as used in the scriptures. There is no earthly organization to this movement. No leader.

So you meet in homes to take the sacrament, read the scriptures, pray and do all the things that new churches do when they are getting started. Yet, you say you are not a church. I don’t get it.

The problem with a formal church organization is that it can be hijacked, taken over by a strongman, if you will. A legal organization can be controlled by government intervention. Our main focus is to come unto Christ through baptism, and prepare ourselves for Zion.

Okay, now this is getting weird. Do you know how extreme that sounds?

What part, performing baptisms or getting ready for the return of Zion?

Both… So you practice baptisms?

Yes. I was baptized September 21st. I’m aware of hundreds of LDS people who have been baptized again just in the past month or so.

Really … What does the LDS Church think about that?

I think you know the answer. Its grounds for excommunication, just like participating in the Sacrament in your home or praying in your home the way we do in the temple. The LDS Church wants to control these things.

So how large would you say this movement is?

Hard to tell … There were six or seven hundred people at the final lecture in Mesa on September 9th. I’m fairly certain there are thousands of LDS members who have read the books or listened to the lectures of Denver Snuffer. That’s a drop in the bucket of the total membership.

Do you think the Mormon leaders know about it?

Of course they do. Elder Nelson referred to a point from Denver’s book recently in General Conference when he said, “No Prophet has ever been elected.”  Brigham Young recorded, “I was unanimously elected President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

Just a matter of interpretation. I think Brigham meant sustained.

Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. The local leaders are becoming much more aware of Denver Snuffer because they are hearing about it from their members.

In a good way or bad way?

Both. Some are bringing questions from Denver’s lectures to their Bishops they can’t answer. Some Bishops are calling members in to question them about things they have heard or read.

Such as?

Oh, you know. A home teacher or a neighbor will tell the Bishop someone in their ward is reading Denver’s stuff. Or the Bishop will ask them about their comments on Facebook.

You’re kidding.

I wish I were. Apparently it’s considered an offense worthy of discipline to read Denver’s writings or to talk to anyone else about his stuff. In fact, there’s a whole group of blogs the leaders don’t want you to visit or talk about.

Seriously …

I speak from personal experience.

So you know of people who have been excommunicated for reading Denver Snuffer’s works?

Yep. There’s a website you can visit that used to keep track but it’s not up to date. There was a couple excommunicated just last Sunday evening because they wouldn’t say the words, “The living prophet and apostles hold all the keys of the kingdom of God.”

Let’s get back to the point. Why do you think this movement is different and will last?

I’ve been watching it for two and a half years. I’ve been intimately involved in reading, studying and praying about the material published by Denver, especially the recent lectures. I participate in the email dialogs. I publish many posts on my blog discussing the ideas in the lectures. I see more and more people willing to give up their membership based on their own experiences.

What kind of experiences?

The same kind that brought them into the LDS Church or helped them become faithful, contributing members throughout their lives. For the most part these are good, humble, sincere individuals and families who are convinced – no, converted – by their feelings in prayer, in worship and in service. In other words, they act upon impressions from God upon them.

So they believe God told them the LDS Church is no longer the only true church?

Yep. They see it as an organization of men, not as the church that will bring about Zion.

So, without a controlling organization at the top, these people who are leaving the LDS Chuch to follow Denver Snuffer…

Wrong. To follow Jesus Christ …

Yes, but based on the teachings of Denver Snuffer…

I’ll grant you that. They – and I – believe the message Denver delivered in the lectures over the past year was inspired by, authorized by, and received by revelation from the Lord.

What is so special and different about this message?

I suppose the primary and perhaps key doctrine, if you will, is that the Lord has wrested the authority or the “keys” of the LDS Church away from the men who lead it.

Based on what?

Based on the principles of unrighteous dominion outlined in D&C section 121.

Wow. That is one amazing claim. I assume it has been refuted.

Of course. You can read all about it on the FAIR website. I’m sure they’ll add more.

And intelligent, regular LDS members are willing to resign or be excommunicated because they believe this, this idea that the LDS Church is no longer authorized of God to … to do what?

Officiate in the ordinances of salvation.

Such as …

Baptism, the Sacrament, temple ordinances…

Really, even temple ordinances?

Even temple ordinances.

Do you know how angry this sort of claim will make regular members of the church?

I was one of them. It made me a little angry the first time I pondered the possibility.

Yet you eventually gave up your membership in the LDS Church because you believe this guy.

No, I resigned from the LDS Church because it was the honorable thing to do, at least for me. Others are willing to go through the excommunication process. I had been through enough of those serving in a High council and Bishoprics over twenty-five years.

But you resigned based on the word of a man you hardly know.

No, I resigned because I prayed about this man’s message and felt it was right.

I go back to the same line. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

I do. I’m well aware I’m seen as a crackpot, a lunatic, a crazy person, or worse. Resigning or being excommunicated from the Mormon Church is considered losing your eternal salvation.

And you apparently don’t believe that?

I used to. Not anymore.

Why not?

Because I feel I have something better, a more sure word of prophecy.

Wait… that phrase has special significance to Mormons, doesn’t it?

It does.

And you’re saying…

That I know the Lord has accepted of and approved of my actions.

Have you seen the Lord?

I have not.

Have you heard his voice?

I have.

Can you describe it? Tell me about it.

Just like it’s described in the scriptures: quiet, peaceful, powerful, deep in the heart and soul.

Wait, you’re describing a feeling. You said you’ve heard His voice.

I have.

What did it sound like?

It wasn’t an audible voice, although there are those who have heard the Lord’s voice. Actually Boyd K. Packer described it best, or maybe it was Marion G. Romney. I forget. One of them said the voice of the Lord will come into your mind without the use of the auditory channel. In other words, you ask a question, wait and the Lord will answer you in full and complete sentences.

Oh, come on…

It works for me.

How do you know it’s not your own voice or maybe the whisperings of an evil spirit?

You just know, or at least I do. It takes years of experience in reading the scriptures.

Let’s wrap this up. You’ve admitted what you’ve done and what you believe sounds crazy to most Mormons. You seem like an intelligent guy. If someone else wanted to duplicate your experiment, so to speak, I assume you recommend they read Denver’s books and lectures.

Yes, but I’ve found something from another witness that has opened my soul as I have read and studied from its pages. I wrote about it previously on my blog after I read the first chapter. I’ve now read the second chapter and am in the third. I want to put a plug in for this book again.

Okay, go ahead. What is it?

The book is entitled, 77 Truths and the author is Bret Corbridge from Montrose, Colorado.

What’s so special about this book?

Besides the fact it is chock full of quotes, scriptures and commentary supporting powerful truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ, many of which are no longer taught in the LDS Church, Bret feels so strongly this book will help people understand truths of the gospel, he is giving it away.

How many pages is the book?

460.

How long did it take him to write it?

Not quite sure. Somewhere between two and four years.

So you’re saying a lot of the ideas taught by Denver Snuffer are in this 460-page book from Bret Corbridge, which he spent years writing and now he is willing to give it away free?

Yep.

That’s crazy.

It’s called consecration. Bret’s a good man. And the book is wonderful. I highly recommend it.

Okay, so how do you get one?

Email bret@77truths.com and ask for a copy. The PDF is free. You can buy the physical book on Amazon for about $15, but he says if you want a physical copy and can’t afford it, email him.

Any concluding thoughts for this interview? I’m still not convinced this movement will last.

I don’t blame you or anyone else for being skeptical. I’m convinced the very last days are upon us. I’m also convinced the events foretold in prophecy about the breakdown of society are about to come to pass. It may be years, but the day will come when society breaks up into tribes. The message delivered by the Lord through Denver Snuffer is a message of preparation. We have been invited to practice consecration in communities to care for the poor among us. That’s one of the signs of a Zion society – no poor among them. We use our tithing for that purpose.

So you pay tithing to this man.

No. We pay tithing to the Lord and use it in our local groups or communities. We don’t build malls.

Do you have a temple?

Not yet. But we will.

Why?

To present to the Lord a list of names of those who have been baptized.

Who will pay for this temple?

I have no idea. I haven’t thought about it.

Sounds familiar to Warren Jeff’s group and the YFZ temple in Arizona.

I know. I know. Lots of Mormon fundamentalists have similar ideas from the restoration.

The LDS Church is the biggest group that came out of Joseph Smith’s visions and dreams.

Yes, and it will probably remain so. I’m grateful to the LDS Church for all it has done for me over the fifty plus years I was a member. I gave a lifetime of service in the LDS Church. I have friends and family whom I love who faithfully serve and give to the LDS Church.

But you left to follow… not this man Denver Snuffer as you say, but what you believe the Lord asked of you. And you don’t think you have been deceived.

That’s correct. I suppose time will tell, won’t it? I don’t believe a man should be required to accept or acknowledge another living man, even if he claims to be a prophet, in order to come unto Christ. As far as I know, Denver has not claimed to be a prophet. I have written in my blog he has acted as a messenger, a prophet and a servant of the Lord. He has delivered his message. However, belief in and acceptance of a prophet should not be a requirement for membership in Christ’s church.

Well, good luck to you. You have chosen an unusual path for someone with your background.

Thank you. I recognize what I have done would be especially difficult for someone who has multiple generations of Mormonism in their heritage. My family members were converts when I was a child. I have studied and lived Mormonism all my life. I never expected to leave the LDS Church. I still consider myself a Mormon, but more accurately, a disciple of Jesus Christ. I want to follow the Savior. “Follow the Prophet” is not my mantra. It may be for others, but not for me.

We Thank Thee O God For a Prophet


ProphetJosephSmithI attended our ward Sacrament meeting today. Because of General Conference next week, we held our monthly Fast and Testimony meeting. A majority of the testimonies were from the sisters sharing their thoughts about the Women’s meeting last night. The number of testimonies of a loving God and Savior were about equal to those of a living prophet. I appreciated that.

I’ve become more attuned lately to the expressions of gratitude for a living prophet in our testimony meetings as well as in the material we teach each Sunday. I’m obviously going through some adjustments in my thinking about prophets. Yes, I fully accept Joseph Smith was called of God as a prophet and acted as such. But yes, I also feel something was lost after Joseph.

Was Brigham inspired? Yes. Was he a prophet? I never knew the man. The people sustained him as such. The first prophet I knew was David O. McKay, but I don’t think I paid attention until the days of Spencer W. Kimball. Yes, I felt he was a prophet, else I wouldn’t have responded to his call to serve a mission. Did he speak for the Lord? I believed so. In fact, I still believe he did so.

Prophets Who Don’t Get in the Way

What about Presidents Monson, Eyring and Uchtdorf? Our opening song this morning was “We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet.” I always think of Joseph Smith when we sing that song. Do I think these men are prophets? We sustain them as such, or at least members of the LDS Church do so. I am no longer a member of the LDS Church. It makes me think of President Hinckley.

When he was asked the question, “Are you a prophet?” he responded, “The people sustain me as such.” I have always wondered why he didn’t just come right out and say, “Yes, I am a Prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ.” Of course that invites the follow-up question, “Does he talk to you?” and the inevitable answer, “I believe he inspires me today,” or some words to that general effect.

At least President Hinckley went out and spoke to the media. President Monson is getting a bit old and has short-term memory loss. I hope we will see him in good spirits and good health next week. He was at the Woman’s Conference last night. I hope we will hear from him. I still pray for the leaders of the LDS Church. I desire the Lord’s blessings upon them as well as local leaders.

Deny the Sacrament for Asking Questions

I’ve tried to make it clear I hold no animosity toward my Bishop and Stake President for placing disciplinary restrictions upon me as I was going through my faith crisis. I know they were just following the handbook. But I do feel it is wrong to withhold the sacrament from someone just because they are questioning their faith and belief in the authority of the LDS Church leadership.

In fact, I have said it is an abomination and anti-Christ to do that. The handbook is wrong in this matter. To withhold the sacrament because someone is not so sure they see the hand of the Lord on the current LDS Church leadership does not seem like a good idea. I know the Lord said to not administer the sacrament to those who are unworthy, but for wondering about a prophet?

I was willing to sustain these men as prophets, seers and revelators because that’s what we have always called them. I told this to the Bishop. Apparently that wasn’t good enough. I felt as if I was being asked to bow down to them, that they were to be as Gods to me. This is wrong. Our God is a jealous God and has commanded we have no other Gods before him, especially idols.

This is What the Lord Said About That

I ask myself, as do many, what have these men prophesied lately? What direction have they offered and then followed that with words to the effect of, “The Lord required me to tell you this,” or “As I asked the Lord about it, this is what He told me to say.” And just because I ask these questions, the church handbook says I am an apostate and should be denied the sacrament?

This is part of the reason I resigned. I do not believe asking questions makes one unworthy. I do not believe the church has a right to deny the Lord’s sacrament, of which He commanded we are to partake often, from those who ask questions. So when I heard another man say, referring to baptism, “The Lord has renewed this commandment to you this day,” I asked the Lord about it.

I refer of course to the invitation from Denver Snuffer, given at the Phoenix / Mesa Lecture to go and get baptized in living waters as a sign we accept the message the Lord caused to be delivered by a servant, called from outside the hierarchy of the LDS Church. The Lord knew very well that such an invitation would separate out those who believed the Lord sent this messenger to teach us.

Centralized Control – Secret Ordinances

We each must rely upon our own feelings about how we feel the Lord answers our prayers. In my case, it was unmistakable. I heard the voice of the Lord say to me, “Yes, what this man has spoken is the message I asked him to deliver. Yes, you will be blessed for being baptized again.” Simple logic told me I had to keep it secret or else I had to resign from the LDS Church to do so.

One of the advantages of resigning from the LDS Church is I can now partake of the sacrament at home in the way I feel the Lord intended it – with wine. Of course you don’t have to resign to do this, but you’ll have to keep it secret because the LDS Church wants to control it. I believe the ordinance was changed and became invalid when we substituted water for wine in the prayer.

My letter from Confidential Records included the wording, “If you want to become a member of the LDS Church again, see your local unit leaders.” Of course, that would require I go back to no questioning, especially in a public format like this blog. It would also require I accept some of the doctrines and ordinances I am now convinced have been changed. That won’t be happening.

Perform Ordinances in Your Communities

The funny thing is, as a non-member, I could have taken the Sacrament today. The Church, in order to be politically correct, does not forbid non-members from partaking of the Sacrament. But if you dare raise questions about some of the history, doctrines or legitimacy of the current leadership of the LDS Church, you are forbidden to take the Sacrament. Yes, that’s anti-Christ.

I don’t want to be one of those angry former Mormons who rails against the LDS Church. I would much rather focus on what I believe is about to take place in the near future. I was once again reading the Mesa Lecture last night and noted these words, which struck me powerfully. I have always felt strongly about the idea of the disintegration of society before the Lord’s return.

“Before the Lord’s appearance to the Nephites, society broke down into tribes consisting of family and friends. Immediately before the Lord’s return we should expect something similar. Therefore, part of the preparation by God’s house for coming social chaos is likely to include some preliminary preparations by families and friends to fellowship with one another in local gatherings.”

Organize Communities to Build Zion

He indicated these communities would be completely apart from control by the LDS hierarchy. “Only by independently functioning can they hope to prepare for social chaos prophesied to accompany Zion and precede the Lord’s return.” (D&C 45:66-68) One of the things I know I am going to miss is the sense of community I once felt with my ward and stake. That is gone now.

Yes, you can say I am the one who resigned, but I promise you it was only a matter of time before I was excommunicated for apostasy. The bishop made it clear. The handbook mandates, requires, demands and states unequivocally a disciplinary council must be held in the case of apostasy with only the two possible outcomes of disfellowshipment or of excommunication.

I was labeled apostate because I was questioning why we don’t believe and teach some of the things we used to believe and teach. Because of that questioning, and because I was finding answers in the writings of a man who the church cast off, it was determined I was also apostate. You simply don’t question the Brethren in the LDS Church. If you do, you are no longer worthy.

To Bear One Another’s Burdens

I seek community. I have found some community online, but that can’t replace getting together to take the Sacrament, to mourn with those who mourn and to bear one another’s burdens. I also feel that Zion can’t be built up unless we seek to eliminate the poor in our communities. I want to participate in such communicates. I may need to travel to them since we are spread out so far.

If there’s anything I got out of the Mesa lecture besides the distinct impression from the Lord I needed to be baptized in living water, it was the idea of communities. I could see them in my mind’s eye spread all across the land. They were small groups at first, meeting secretly out of fear of discovery, just as the believers in Alma’s days had to hide from the searches of the King.

I had a reader ask me why I didn’t focus on the invitation Denver offered in Grand Junction. If you’ll recall, we were invited to organize into communities with the express purpose of learning to care for the poor and needy among us. He quoted Denver’s words in which the purpose of tithing is to bring to pass the words, “and there were no poor among them.” I share them here:

Build Zion Communities with No Poor

“So, given the fact that you are commanded to pay tithing, and some of you are unable or refuse to do so because of the particular circumstances that you see in your church of choice, and given the fact that the Lord has said, ‘Organize yourselves,’ I would suggest one small thing you could begin is to collect your own tithing in a group. You manage it among yourselves. You assist the poor among you.

“If you disagree with what your churches are doing but recognize the obligation to pay, then take control over the funds to do what you believe God would have done to help others. As groups of common believers, pay tithing into a common fund. Then by the voice of your own group, dispose of it by common consent so that everyone in your group knows everything that comes in and everything that goes out. Then you begin to have no poor among your group.

“You provide for those who need housing, food, clothing, healthcare, education, and transportation. Do it without a leader. Do it by the voice of your own common consent, by your own unanimous approval. Do it by united agreement. Now, if some of you who hear this decide to begin to do this you will learn firsthand in a pragmatic lab experiment just how difficult it is to become ‘one.’ You will learn how greatly this world opposes the idea of Zion.

The Cost of Discipleship Can Be High

“You will learn from the criticism of others how to suffer for your Lord’s sake. You may even be deprived of fellowship with others who do not agree it is your obligation to care for the poor, but that the church you belong to owns that right to the exclusion of your opportunity to participate. You may lose a temple recommend, or a church calling, or even your church membership. And you will learn how much churches care for money above all else.

“Even in a small group you will find challenges. You want to know how far away you are at this moment from Zion; this will tell you. If you want an accurate barometer of ‘what lack you yet?’ Then organize yourselves and you, unitedly in small groups, gather your tithing into the storehouse you maintain, and by your common consent take care of those who are poor among you. You will receive an education like none other in the reasons men fail to have Zion. The fact that men fail doesn’t excuse you from your own failing. Rise up!”

Seven Women Shall Take Hold of One Man

Now back to the Mesa lecture to conclude my thoughts. On page fifteen, we can read more about organizing communities for fellowship. Denver quoted the Lord, “There shall be a minimum of seven women to sustain the man in any vote, and if the man is married, his wife shall be one of them.” When I heard these words, I felt very sad. I wanted to participate but knew I couldn’t.

Later on the page: “If the man is married, his wife must be among the seven women. If his wife will not sustain him, he is unworthy to provide priesthood service in the fellowship.” I have thought much about this. I am in this specific situation. Once again, I am found unworthy. Not only can I not officiate in ordinances outside my home, I can’t even contribute to help the poor.

In this case, “The word ‘unworthy’ is not a statement of condemnation, but of qualification. There is nothing implied in the word about a man’s standing before God, only the fact that within the community of fellowship until the wife is prepared to support him acting outside the family, his effort should remain within his family until the wife sees value to her husband serving others.

Unworthy to Contribute, but not Condemned

“The word ‘unworthy’ was the Lord’s and therefore I do not feel at liberty to change it. But I want it clear that when He used it I had a definite understanding that no condemnation was implied. Only an orderly arrangement was given.” I can accept this definition of unworthy. It works. I can accept it because I know it comes from the Lord, not from interpreting some Church handbook.

It’s important to see that the Lord quoted “seven women” to Denver. You can see it yourself in the transcript in the middle of page fifteen. He was specifically quoting the Lord. There has been much discussion of this … “unusual” … aspect of the lecture. As Denver pointed out, the Mesa lecture has become a turning point for many individuals. I see so many who have stalled out.

Those who were expecting just another lecture on doctrine came away shocked. Those who were looking for direction from a servant of the Lord came away pleased with instructions to organize communities in preparation for Zion. I want to contribute financially and in other ways. I wait upon the Lord. Perhaps someday I will be able to do so. For now, this blog is my contribution.

Answers – Because I Keep Getting Asked


Death is a time of reflection“Why did you do this?”
“I felt it was the right thing to do.”

“Did you think about the consequences?”
“Of course, I’ve thought about them for two and a half years.”

“Do you realize what you’ve given up?”
“Actually, I’ve been more focused on what I have gained.”

“What do you mean?”
“I’ve never felt closer to the Lord or more in tune with His spirit.”

“How can you say that? You just resigned from the Lord’s Church.”
“I resigned so I could get baptized with full purpose of heart.”

“But you’ve already been baptized.”
“I was only eight years old at the time. I didn’t know what I was doing.”

All Decisions Have Consequences

“Did you think about how this would affect your family?”
“Yes. I have fasted and prayed about it many, many times.”

“Do you realize you’ve lost your eternal salvation?”
“I disagree. Eternal salvation does not require membership in the LDS Church.”

“How can you say that after all the LDS Church has done for you?”
“Eternal salvation requires acceptance from the Lord and knowledge of His love.”

“And it requires membership in His Church.”
“Yes, I agree. It requires membership in the Church of the Firstborn.”

“But you can only get that through the LDS Church.”
“No. The LDS Church can help prepare you to receive the Lord.”

We Can Receive Christ in Mortality

“Why are you so focused on Christ? Don’t you realize exaltation is to be like Father?”
“The only way back into the presence of the Father is through the Savior.”

“Yes, of course. But what about the temple and the ordinances we receive there?”
“They’re preparatory ordinances. They’re not the real thing. They’re symbolic.”

“What? I’ve never heard of any such thing.”
“Then you haven’t been listening close enough as you participate in the temple.”

“So you’re saying the temple sealing is not binding and not eternal?”
“Not unless it’s sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That’s all over D&C 132.”

“But you’ve given up your priesthood.”
“That’s not true. The Church doesn’t control priesthood. I received it from my father.”

“But he must have received it from someone back to Peter, James and John.”
“I’m not so sure the Higher Priesthood can be passed from man to man.”

Priesthood Power Not Controlled by Man

“Do you believe the Aaronic Priesthood was restored through John the Baptist?”
“Yes, I do. And I believe that’s the priesthood I received from my father.”

“Then how do you believe one receives the Higher Priesthood?”
“It is received only by hearing the voice of God declare it unto the man.”

“Really? And you’ve heard the voice of God?”
“I have. But I don’t believe I’ve received the higher priesthood yet.”

“This is impossible. You’ve completely lost the spirit of the Lord.”
“Quite the contrary. I feel the spirit of the Lord in greater abundance than ever.”

“Don’t you realize you have taken from your wife the greatest hope of her life?”
“She loses nothing. She has the same opportunity. It requires the Holy Spirit of Promise.”

Words of The Living ProphetsRichYoungRuler

“This is totally contrary to the teachings of the LDS Church.”
“I understand. But it’s not contrary to what Joseph Smith taught.”

“Are you saying you can prove all these ideas from the teachings of Joseph Smith?”
“Yes, given sufficient time to put the points together in a way you’ll understand.”

“There’s no way. We must rely on the words of the living prophets.”
“Not if they don’t square with the scriptures or the teachings of Joseph Smith.”

“Sometimes you just have to trust they know what they’re talking about.”
“Not when it comes to my eternal salvation. That’s why I study and pray.”

“You’re saying God told you the living prophets have got it wrong?”
“In some very important things, yes, they have got it wrong.”

Deceived By False Prophets

“My friend, I am sorry for you – very, very sorry.”
“Now do you understand why I resigned from the LDS Church?”

“Yes. You have been deceived into believing the ideas of a false prophet.”
“Tell me, how many hours have you spent studying the words of Denver Snuffer?”

“None. And I don’t intend to. I barely have time to read the scriptures and the Ensign.”
“There’s your problem. How can you judge a matter if you don’t study it out?”

“I’ve read enough from others to know I disagree with what he teaches.”
“But you haven’t read, studied and prayed for thousands of hours as I have done.”

“No. Every time I try to listen to one of his talks or read his lectures I get a dark feeling.”
“Then you’re not prepared for what he has written or delivered in his lectures.”

“I know I don’t like what I hear or what I read. He’s not for me. He’s a false prophet.”
“I would be careful about declaring someone a false prophet whom the Lord trusts.”

Apostasy to Listen to Other Messengers

“So Denver is your prophet? You’ve just substituted one prophet for another.”
“I believe Denver is a prophet, a servant of the Lord, and a true messenger.”

“Do you know how blasphemous that sounds?”
“Only to the mind of someone steeped in the traditions of the LDS Church.”

“So that’s why you resigned your membership in the LDS Church?”
“I resigned because the Church Handbook requires I be excommunicated for apostasy.”

“Yes, and rightfully so. You are an apostate. You are leading others astray.”
“I require nobody to believe as I do. I claim the right to share my beliefs.”

“Not in this church you don’t. You teach what the Brethren say or out you go.”
“Precisely.”

“Can’t you see the beauty of having the doctrine controlled from the top?”
“I could if I knew for certain the leaders spoke with and on behalf of the Lord.”

Millions of People Can’t Be Wrong

“Millions of people can’t be wrong. They all know the prophet speaks with God.”
“We all speak with God, but does he speak for God? What has he prophesied lately?”

“Well, he’s been a little out of it lately. But just you wait. Listen to General Conference.”
“I intend to do so. I enjoy listening to inspired Brethren teach the doctrines of Christ.”

“So you admit the Church is inspired and led by the Lord.”
“I do. I have always felt that way. There are many good men and women in the Church.”

“Then why did you leave it?”
“We’ve been over that. I’ve given my reasons. Do you resent my exercise of agency?”

“I’m simply concerned for your eternal salvation.”
“And I yours. Thank you for your loving concern.”

“I wish there was something I could say to help you.”
“There is. You can always pray for me and my family.”

“I’ll do that. I’ll pray that you’ll be brought back to the light.”
“Thank you my friend. God bless you and your family.”

JesusTeaching

Why I Resigned From the LDS Church


TMalonePic4It’s customary to write an exit letter when leaving an organization after a long period of time, so here’s mine. I have no desire to flame or insult anyone. You don’t have to read this. It’s for my own soul to find peace. I share it in the spirit of love, especially for those who have prayed for me as I have gone through this difficult transition period over the last few years. God bless you.

A Few Preliminaries

First and foremost, I want to thank the many individuals over the years who have taught me the gospel or who have allowed me to teach them. I cherish moments spent in gospel doctrine class, in Seminary, in the High Priest’s Group and in Bishopric and High Council meetings when we have been edified together. There is nothing like being fed by the Lord through the scriptures.

Second, I am at peace with this decision. I confirmed it with the Lord in prayer. In fact, it was the Lord who continually urged this action upon me for the past three or four days. I know, I know. You may say, “Well, it wasn’t the Lord urging you to resign your membership.” I disagree. It was the honorable thing to do. It saved sixteen men many hours of time away from their families.

Third, I do not feel any different. I still feel the warmth and comfort of the spirit of the Lord. You may say, give it time, give it time. I hear you. I know there are things about membership in the LDS Church I will miss, but I will not miss the spirit of the Holy Ghost because he abides with me still, as does the priesthood authority I received from my father when I was but a lad.

A Few Questions Answered

Now for a couple of silly questions: Will I remove my garments? No. They still mean something to me. Will I attend the three-hour block each week? No. I will probably only attend Sacrament meeting with Carol. I will probably have my own sacrament meeting at home for a while until I can find a group with whom I can participate. Community is important. I seek a new community.

Will I continue to pay tithing? Yes. Carol and I discussed this. It is important to her to pay tithing to the LDS Church. I would prefer to pay tithing to a group where I know it is being used 100% to help the poor. But, and I know this sounds strange, unity with Carol is important to me. This is a difficult thing for Carol. Some women would divorce their husbands for leaving the Church.

I know Carol is hurt and disappointed. She is a fifth-generation Mormon. It means everything to her. She defends it with all the passion of a she bear. I have learned not to cross her. I am grateful she attended some of the lectures. I will make no attempt to entice her to follow me. I will only love her as best I can for a man who knows so little about the romantic needs of a good woman.

Don’t Blame This on Denver Snuffer

To all those who now say, “See, I told you so. I warned you the moment you started reading and writing about those books from Denver Snuffer.” Yes, you’re right. You warned me. And you warned me and then warned me over and over again. Thank you for your loving concern. It did no good. I had a witness of the truth the moment I first read PtHG that night in January of 2012.

So am I now a follower of Denver Snuffer? No. I never was and never will be. I barely know the man. I know his writings and have been edified by them, but I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. Let no man come between you and your God. I suppose if there’s one thing I do feel different already, it is the realization that I now get my marching orders – my daily priorities – only from the Lord.

Previous to this afternoon’s letter of resignation, I was always concerned about, “What would my priesthood leaders think of this?” or “What does the LDS Church say I should be doing with my time?” Maybe that’s my own fault or failing, but it’s has been ingrained in me from a lifetime of hearing it drilled into my soul – follow the prophet. He knows the way. Thanks, but no thanks.

Follow the Prophet – Mantra Gone Too Far

I think I finally realized how bad it was one Sunday in High Priest’s group when I answered a question posed by the instructor about marriage. I simply emphasized something I know we have been taught about temple marriages – that they are conditional upon being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. This is a true doctrine. Always has been and always will be as far as I know.

You should have heard some of the comments I got from some of the brethren. And these were brethren I used to lead as the High Priest Group Leader. Somehow, it turned into a diatribe on the importance of following the prophet, that only he could interpret scripture or pronounce doctrine. It was as if they felt I was personally attacking them and their marriages. I was simply stunned.

It seems as if this has become the last stand for the LDS Church. It is a position of fear – follow the prophet. Please don’t misunderstand. I am not attacking President Monson or whoever is the current president of the LDS Church whenever you read this. I simply thank God he has given me a mind of my own, that I can think for myself and I can ask God directly for guidance in life.

Study the Doctrine – But Not Too Much

I feel as if a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders and another one placed in its stead. I am OK with that. It is the burden of life. I have simply shifted it from being overly concerned with conformity to the orthodox LDS way of thinking and acting, to now being careful to think, believe, act and live in the manner intended by my Heavenly Father. I have shifted my priorities.

Was the LDS Church holding me back? Yes and no. It’s the classic story. We are urged to study the gospel. When we do, we learn things that don’t jive with what is currently being taught or practiced in the LDS Church. We are nothing like the church Joseph organized in 1830. There are too many traditions and beliefs taught in the correlated curriculum that are simply not right.

Agency – It Only Goes So Far

I can’t tell you how many times I wrote about something I had studied and received a response, “You had better get your views in line with the Brethren or you’re going to be in trouble.” I got this over and over, from the least studied and newest member of the Church to Stake Presidents (not my current Stake President) and Bishops who read and comment on my blog. It’s amazing.

Do I hold any animosity toward the church or its leaders? No. I thank them for all they have done for me, especially my local leaders who have loved me, prayed with me, counseled me and tried to get me to conform to the orthodox ways of modern Mormonism. I am certain I have offended some of my brethren in the High Priest Quorum stake-wide with my writings. They told me so.

I understand the concern expressed by associates on the High Council and Stake Presidency in my former stake. They are concerned for their children and grandchildren. I get that. I apologize if you feel I am to blame for some of them leaving the church. Don’t put that at my feet. And for those in my current stake whose children have resigned – that was their decision and theirs alone.

Faulted for Believing Too Much

So what do I believe now? I believe in God. I know the Father lives and loves me. I know my Savior loves me and leads me. I have become more familiar with His voice over the past two years than at any time in my life. The Holy Ghost is real. He is the comforter. I appreciate that. I know God has a plan for my life that is not over. I went through hell last year to understand that.

I believe Joseph was a prophet of God. More than that, I know he was. The knowledge received of the Holy Ghost is burned into our souls. I have known Joseph was a prophet from my youth. My testimony of the Book of Mormon and other scriptures has not changed. We received the Book of Mormon the way Joseph said it came forth – translated by the gift and power of God.

Those Last Fingers of the Testimony Glove

TestimonyGloveThe restoration was real. God wanted to prepare a people for the establishment of Zion. It did not work out in the early church. The higher priesthood was taken from the earth. The authority of the Aaronic remained. I received that authority from my father. I still have it. Resigning from the LDS Church does not take that away. Priesthood is not controlled by any earthly institution.

Obviously I no longer believe the LDS Church has what it claims. It saddens me the LDS Church seeks to enforce beliefs by disciplinary measures. Some of the policies in the Church Handbook are an abomination. They can destroy families. It also saddens me to learn of manipulation from the highest councils of the Church to control the affairs of local members and local leadership.

We have often been taught, and I have taught it myself, “While the people in the Church aren’t perfect, the Church itself is perfect.” I disagree. The LDS Church was divinely instituted but is not now what the Lord will use to establish Zion. Zion was never intended to be established by a large institution. Zion is to be established in small groups where there are no poor among them.

A Few Closing Thoughts

I often hear the complaint from LDS Church members, “They leave the Church but they won’t leave it alone.” I owe so much to the LDS Church. I judged my mother harshly when she walked away from the Church after twenty-five years. I was wrong. I have since asked for and received her forgiveness. She was my age or a little older when she left. I understand now what happened.

Mother loved the gospel. She was a disciple of Christ. She taught me to love the Savior and to love to study. She could not have been more devoted to the Church and a better example for me. She taught Gospel Doctrine and performed more temple ordinances than anyone I have known. Yet in the end, she could not find community within the narrow-mindedness of some members.

Following the traditions of the fathers is a real problem in the LDS Church. It keeps the members from progressing. It’s good to safeguard some things that build family unity but not good to hold onto false beliefs and practices such as an over-reliance on “the Brethren” to tell us what’s what. That’s why my mother left after years of dedicated service. And now I have followed in her path.

A Broken Heart and a Contrite Spirit


BrokenHeartMy Bishop is a wise man. He has the spirit of discernment. I know he and my Stake President asked me to not write publicly about our conversations on my blog, but things have changed. In our last interview, when I said I was ready to get my temple recommend, he said he didn’t believe me, that even though I try to be respectful, there is a spirit of apostasy in my writings.

He then placed me on informal probation, forbidding me to partake of the sacrament and to not exercise my priesthood in the church. Of course, he was only following the handbook. I think I’ve mentioned a church disciplinary council is mandatory in cases of apostasy. Based on what I shared on Tuesday, I think it’s pretty obvious I’ve made a decision now about where I stand.

I like one of the comments from a reader – Kevin - on Tuesday’s post. He asked, “In all of this Mormon-focused excitement, Tim, do you have a sense of what Denver’s talks and the 10th talk in particular might mean for the more than 99.99% of the human family that aren’t Mormon?” He makes a good point. What happened Tuesday went entirely unnoticed by most of the world.

A Message from a Prophet

I’ve previously declared Denver Snuffer to be a prophet. I know that’s a charged word in our church so it drew a lot of opposition. I stand by my proclamation, mainly because the Lord asked me to share it. Denver Snuffer delivered the message the Lord asked him to deliver. He acted as the Lord’s messenger and the Lord’s servant. I’ve heard the voice of the Lord declare it to me.

In spite of my proclamation, I don’t think Denver has ever stated he is a prophet. He has continually asked us to focus on Christ. While we may listen to prophets, we follow Christ. Something obviously changed Tuesday, because he said, the Lord told him, “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee.” He also mentioned another visit with Christ on May 1st, 2014.

While my wife was horrified at what she was hearing at Tuesday’s lecture, I was delighted. I have listened to the recording a couple of times now. Along with many of you, I am anxiously awaiting the release of the transcript. Even though I was baptized as a child, I have made up my mind I want to receive the ordinance of baptism as an adult. I just need someone to baptize me.

An Offering unto the Lord

When I was a child, I’m certain I didn’t meet the requirements for baptism as outlined in D&C 20:37 of coming forward with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. At age eight I didn’t have the maturity to understand this. Now that I am older I can testify I have experienced a broken heart. Some people may not think my spirit is contrite, but contrition is proven by acts of submission.

My Bishop and I talked about the importance of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I agreed with him in principle but made certain to state my position that these must be offered to the Lord and not to any man, no matter who he is or what position he holds. It is an act of submission to obey the commandment to repent and be baptized. That submission is a freewill offering to the Lord.

In other words, the idea of being submissive or deferential to a man, no matter who he is, when it comes to matters of salvation, is an abomination to the Lord. It is idol worship. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” includes men who would stand in the place of God, be they a prophet, an apostle, a general authority, stake president, bishop or any church leader, teacher or counselor.

Church Does Not Control Priesthood

I received the priesthood from my father. The priesthood is independent of the church. It existed before the church was organized. A man is not dependent upon any organization to receive it. It came unto the earth in these latter days through John the Baptist. Unlike the higher priesthood, the Aaronic Priesthood can be passed down from man to man. The church doesn’t control it.

Therefore, I can seek out any man who has the Aaronic priesthood, and, following the pattern of praying first to receive power, he can then baptize me. The church has nothing to say about this. It has nothing to do with the church. The church cannot control the exercise of the priesthood in a private ordinance. Baptism is between me and the Lord, not between me and the LDS Church.

The promise of the Lord in 3 Nephi 9:20 is that if we offer a broken heart and a contrite spirit to the Lord, he will baptize us with fire and with the Holy Ghost. He said nothing about the laying on of hands in this verse. In my youth I went through a period of deep repentance, striving to cast off the effects of my sins. I am certain I was born again that evening, but was I baptized with fire?

An Abomination before the Lord

I’ve been thinking about the imposed discipline of being forbidden to partake of the Sacrament. I know the Lord commanded we shall not allow any one knowingly to partake of the sacrament unworthily (3 Ne 18:28-29), which caused me to ponder the meaning of worthiness. I cannot bring myself to believe my questioning and writing about the church has made me unworthy.

When I sat as a counselor in various Bishoprics over the years, I always took the opportunity to suggest to the bishop, when asked for ideas on how we could help penitent souls, that he would consider allowing them to take the sacrament, perhaps sooner than they may have “deserved” it by their actions. After all, who among us really ever “deserves” to partake of the sacrament?

Unless you know someone is engaging in fornication or adultery, forbidding someone to partake of the sacrament is anti-Christ. It is an abomination before the Lord. Forbidding to partake of the sacrament as a means to pressure someone to change their way of thinking is detestable. It is an abuse of power. It is an attempt at exercising control and compulsion by virtue of dominion.

More Than One Prophet on the Earth

When I turned in my temple recommend it was because I was struggling with the “affiliation” question. After I resolved that and felt ready to renew my recommend, the Bishop shocked me by his statement I don’t sustain the prophet as the only man authorized to exercise all the keys of the priesthood. I said I accept the prophet as the leader of the LDS church with the right to direct it.

I tried to explain it with this example: If Thomas S. Monson were to walk into any LDS Church meeting, he could do whatever he wanted. He could make any change he wanted to make. He could change the meeting to whatever format he wanted. He could ask anyone to accept a call, to teach a class, to sing a song, to pray, or whatever he felt inspired to have them do in the meeting.

Apparently that wasn’t a good enough answer. He leaned forward and said, “And…?” I accept Thomas S. Monson as the leader of the LDS Church. Can’t we have more than one prophet at a time? I believe Denver Snuffer is also a prophet, but not the leader of the LDS Church. There are many examples in the scriptures of having more than one prophet on the earth at the same time.

LDS Church No Longer Led by Priesthood

Well, it’s all a moot case now. The Church was careless with Denver Snuffer. There was no sin in his life warranting church discipline. He was morally worthy. His excommunication was an abuse of authority. As soon as the decision was made, the Lord terminated the priesthood authority of every leader involved in that decision. This is easily demonstrated in D&C 121:37.

Denver appealed to the First Presidency, outlining the involvement of the Twelve and the Seventy. The appeal gave notice to them all. The appeal was summarily denied. Last General Conference, the entire First Presidency, Twelve, Seventy, all other general authorities and auxiliaries voted to sustain those who abused their authority in casting him out of the church.

At that moment, the Lord ended all rights of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to claim it is led by the priesthood. They have not practiced what He requires. The Lord brought about His purposes. This has been in His heart all along. He chose to use Denver to accomplish it. None of this was Denver’s doing. The Lord’s strange act was not planned by Denver.

Organizing into Local Communities

Denver said he did not understand this until the Lord made it known unto him on the evening of May 1st, 2014. The Lord has done this. He is the author of this. The Lord had wrested the keys, the kingdom, the power and the glory from the LDS Church leaders. D&C 84:27-28 explains how John the Baptist was raised up to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews. It applies to Denver.

The Jews did not notice what the Lord had done through John the Baptist. In like manner, God’s house is a house of order. He sets things up according to his pattern and then tears them down in the same way. It is not God’s purpose to abandon the restoration. It is His purpose to preserve the restoration, which at this moment is in terrible jeopardy. The restoration itself must be rescued.

This is why I want to be baptized. I want to show the Lord I accept what He has done through his servant and messenger. Denver is not starting a new church. We are simply being invited to take back the restoration into communities as it was intended. We are organizing though the Internet, finding like-minded individuals who believe and want to be baptized as we read in 3 Nephi 11.

Tithing is Intended to Help the Poor

Since I no longer have a temple recommend, I see no need to pay my tithing to the LDS Church. However, since it is a commandment to pay tithing, I am seeking a community where I can help the poor with my tithing. 100% of my tithing will be used to help the poor. It will not go to pay the salaries of any church employee or leader, to build malls or to maintain any church building.

We do not need church buildings to meet in small groups or communities. We can and will meet in homes, in parks, at the beach, in the mountains or wherever we choose. Because we have the priesthood we can administer the sacrament and baptize. This is not a new church. It is simply practicing our religion the way the Lord intended it. The Internet makes it easy to organize.

There will be no hierarchy, no curriculum other than the scriptures and no formal program that must be rigidly followed in a set, three-hour block. We will not go over the same lessons every four years, drinking milk ad infinitum, but will minister to the needs of each other according to our desires to learn and the gifts of the spirit. And we can sing songs from any source we choose.

No Poor Among People of Zion

Above all, we will help each other come onto Christ. We will teach what he requires to open the heavens, to receive angels, to commune with the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn, and to be ministered unto directly by the Savior, something I almost never hear about in the LDS Church. There will be no poor among us. The whole purpose is to be a people worthy of Zion.

I am already aware of a half dozen small groups, some that have been organized for months. I know of baptisms taking place with rejoicing because of the receipt of the spirit in abundance. There are those who have been successful in managing the tithing funds in such a way as to be able to remove a single mother and her children from welfare. This is truly the gospel in action.

Sadly, because I am all alone here in the Central California Coast in my acceptance of what the Lord has done through Denver Snuffer, I must travel to groups organizing in more populated areas or wait until more people in this area catch the vision of what the Lord has done. Equally sad is the fact that, for wanting to live my religion, the LDS Church will no doubt cast me out.

A Few Notes from the Mesa Lecture


MesaHiltonI tried to do a little live-blogging to my Facebook Group as the lecture rolled forth. I couldn’t keep up. There were too many declarations coming too fast. I should not have been surprised. Carol has been telling me for months, maybe for the past year that the day would come when Denver would make these kinds of pronouncements. Carol is a prophetess. She saw this day.

Largest Audience of the Ten Lectures

The room was set up to accommodate 700 people. I looked around just as it started. It appeared to be full with only a few empty seats. I want to mention again how overwhelmed Carol and I both were at the kind remarks from everyone who introduced themselves saying they read the blog and how much they appreciated it. The Internet has brought together a very eclectic group.

The Lord has Wrested the Kingdom

Denver read D&C 84:27-28 and implied it applied to him, saying John had wrested the kingdom from the Jews. Likewise, he said the Lord had wrested authority from the First Presidency, because they consented to his excommunication – “Amen to the priesthood of that man.” That’s not a quote but was implied. By the way, this is not new. He implied this previously on his blog.

Amen to the Priesthood of that Man

Denver reminded us that the priesthood doesn’t require a church to exist. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The church requires the priesthood. He reiterated how D&C 121:37-42 works. Power in the priesthood is NOT to control. If it is used to control or compel by virtue of dominion then the priesthood or the authority of that man is lost. Persuasion and long-suffering is required.

First Presidency Lost Their Authority

“Denver referred to another visit with The Lord on May 1st 2014. He said the Lord told him a few things about the Church. He said he was one of the “least of these” through which the Lord accomplished a great work. He said it had been completed. Section 121 applied to all Church leaders. He proclaimed the First Presidency lost their authority at the last General Conference.

Church Control of Local Leaders

He retold the story of how Elder Nelson had, contrary to scriptures, been directly involved in his excommunication. He used control and compulsion in demanding his Stake President take the disciplinary action against Denver. He said the church told his Stake President to not reveal the fact they had been involved in Denver’s excommunication – and to hide what had been done.

I Will Bless Them that Bless Thee

Denver said, “The Lord told me, ‘I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee.'” Wow. This quote was quite disturbing to Carol. She turned to me and said, “He equates himself to Joseph Smith.” Of course the scripture reference is Genesis 12:3 as well as Joseph Smith History 1:33 – that *Denver’s* name should be had for good and evil among all nations.

Denver is Not Starting a New Church

“Denver reiterated he will not start a church. He said we do not need a legal organization which can be controlled and corrupted. He did say we do need to organize as a body of believers. He is discussing that now and how it will be accomplished.” Carol called it “Denver’s Community,” but I heard him say “small groups” that would only be geographical in nature – or would they?

Seven Women to Authorize One Man

Denver is now discussing the way to organize the community. He said only women should sustain men in the priesthood. *Applause* This is amazing what we are hearing. I can’t wait to read the transcript. He added the importance of obtaining power to baptize as did Alma. He also quoted JS History 1:69 saying it remains. It takes seven women to authorize a man to minister.

Use Tithing to help the Poor and Needy

He quoted Luke 18:1-14: “I wish I had the money to place an ad in the LA Times, saying ‘If you want the gift of the Holy Ghost came to this place on this date and I will be there to baptize you. Can you imagine the difference this will make among the poor and the needy to be clothed with the gift of the Holy Ghost? We can’t change the world by legislation but we can do this.”

The Right Way to Conduct Worship Services

Denver quoted D&C 50:17-25, and said “you should not waste another three-hour block of time in nonsense each Sunday. If nothing more, get together and read the scriptures or have a prayer meeting, but don’t waste your time on stuff from Deseret or published by the LDS Church.” What a direct slam on the way we conduct church meetings each Sunday. This got applause.

False Churches with False Teachers

“Denver is quoting 2nd Nephi 28, adding comments that this is our day and describing the LDS Church, especially verse 5. Oh, my. Who is going to write this up for the Trib and how soon will it come out?” He pointed out that the LDS Church teaches this today – that the Redeemer has given his power unto men and that he no longer ministers directly to members of the Church.

They Seek deep to Hide Their Counsels

“Denver is saying verses 10 through 15 are directly referring to the Church today. He told the story of the Church coming to get journals of Neal Maxwell after he died because they held details too sensitive to be revealed. They seek to hide deep their counsels. Wow.” He quoted Isaiah 29:13-15 saying it defines the Church today and is about to be fulfilled now in our day.

You Do Not Need Buildings to Meet

“You do not need buildings to meet. Tithing is for the poor. Joseph Smith only built one building – a temple.” “Denver just announced there will eventually be a temple built. The names of those baptized will be recorded. A record will be kept and deposited once a year in the temple.” This is an amazing declaration. There is to be no hierarchy. The church is a community of believers.

Forbidding to Take Sacrament is Anti-Christ

He also said, “Anyone who forbids you to partake of the sacrament in the Lord’s way is anti-Christ.” He also said we should use wine or if necessary for medical reasons, grape juice. The church should kneel with those who bless the Sacrament.” He was very emphatic that anyone who restricts a member from taking the sacrament to compel a course of action is cursed.

Defining the True and Living Church

“This is the day at long last when God can bring to pass that which he intended to have happen before he returns. The true and living church referred to the church in Joseph Smith’s day. That day passed for a season but is now upon us again. Everything from this talk – all ten segments – is being offered to you by God. The work is beginning again.” – Denver Snuffer 9-9-14

Added to the Doctrine of Christ

“The LDS Church no longer preaches the doctrine of Christ,” Denver said, because it has added the question “Do you believe the current prophet to be the prophet of God?” He then said you / we need to take action. You need to be baptized in the correct manner.” The correct manner is to be baptized using the correct words. Believing in the current prophet is not part of the gospel.

Significance of April 2014 Conference

Per Denver, “If you were ordained in the LDS Church before April 2014 you can bless the sacrament and baptize. Otherwise, you should hold a conference among yourselves to sustain those who will minister unto you.” This is an obvious reference to the date he claims to have wrested the kingdom or authority away from the Church. What an amazing claim to make.

Take Action – Be Baptized Correctly

Referring to 3 Nephi 11:20-40, he said, “This day, is this commandment renewed in your ears, in the name of Jesus Christ. You need to be baptized in the correct way, with the correct words – having authority. However improbable or unlikely any of this may seem to you, I testify it is true. It is from The Lord. These are his words. I have delivered them faithfully.” He then left.

A Witness of the Voice of the Lord

Keith Henderson bore a short testimony he had heard the voice of The Lord declare the message that Denver had delivered was true. A sister got up and said she wanted to organize a group. A brother got up and said those without their wives should excuse themselves. I got up and left. Carol had already left after the first hour. She went to the Mesa temple to think. What a day.

Note: too many people have misunderstood why the brother got up and suggested those without their spouses might want to excuse themselves. He was simply saying his wife was home in Idaho with the kids and he wanted to discuss this with her before he proceeded with any action to organize. That’s all. It was very simple. Don’t read more into it than that.

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