The Lord woke me at 3am the other morning. I wasn’t sure what He wanted. I prayed, felt led to search and ponder some recent email communications. He asked me to respond to a good brother with whom I had been conversing about the sacrament. The dialog had turned to keys. I wrote him an email. The Lord told me to make it public. I did not heed the prompting. It kept returning.
This morning the Lord woke me at 2am. Okay. I get it. In a Fast and Testimony meeting a few years ago, a ward member got up and said, “I’m supposed to tell you …” Even though I wasn’t there, I can promise you that testimony was discussed in bishopric meeting. You don’t use those kinds of words in the LDS Church from the pulpit these days. Why? He was not in leadership.
Tradition Shall No Longer Rule
I guess I’m still struggling to shed years of tradition about how messages from the Lord are to be delivered. In the LDS Church, you don’t get up and say, “I have a message the Lord asked me to share.” It goes back to D&C 28:1-7 where Oliver was admonished in verse six, “And thou shalt not command him who is at thy head.” It also relates to the seer stone incident (D&C 28:11-13).
Well, things have changed. I’m not used to having the Lord ask me to do something and share it in a public manner as anything other than my opinion. I have a need to repent. This post is an act of repentance for me. The voice of the Lord was clear and direct, even emphatic. It is not my place to judge if it is appropriate or not. I am not to assume it might offend. My desire is to please the Lord.
Listening to the Voice of the Lord
This is the response I wrote to this good brother. He lives in California. He has contributed a lot to the FAIR website over the years, presented at FAIR conferences. I suspect he is the author of the recent postings on that site related to Denver’s book, Passing the Heavenly Gift, as well as several of the entries about Denver’s blog. I was wondering if someone would respond to those.
Thanks for the ongoing dialog. I appreciate your response to my point about keys. I assume you know my background, having been a member of the LDS Church from the time my family joined when I was five years old until just last month, when I resigned at age 57. Keys, Keys, Keys. I’ve heard it all my life. I’ve taught it from the pulpit as a High Councilor and in the classroom as a High Priest Group Leader or Gospel Doctrine Teacher. I’m fairly certain I know the church’s position on keys. I’m more interested in what the Lord has to say to me about keys. If we can agree on the definition: keys open things and can be either knowledge or authority – you tell me which way you lean – then I’d like to know why you say Denver’s claim that the Lord wrested the keys from the LDS Church is false doctrine.
Actually, I suppose I would prefer to focus on how we can each know the truth for ourselves. I know this is a fundamental basic of Mormonism 101 but it applies to this most important of claims. I don’t care about others who have made such a claim. I don’t know them. I do know Denver – a little. I have read his books, studied his blog postings, attended his lectures and, most importantly, prayed incessantly for the past two and a half years (since February 2012) about what he has shared. According to my Bishop and Stake President I have been deceived. According to your words, Denver Snuffer has been led by Satan in his proclamations. I’m sure you know he said the following in the Phoenix / Mesa lecture. I was there with my wife. We both heard it. I was thrilled. Carol was not.
“The Lord has said to me in His own voice, ‘I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you.’ Therefore, I want to caution those who disagree with me, to feel free, to feel absolutely free to make the case against what I say. Feel free to disagree, and make your contrary arguments. If you believe I err, then expose the error and denounce it. But take care; take care about what you say concerning me for your sake, not for mine. I live with constant criticism. I can take it. But I do not want you provoking Divine ire by unfortunately chosen words if I can persuade you against it.”
Now, I don’t know about you, but I have never heard anyone, at least not to my recollection, be they leader – local or general – or regular member, who has EVER said the Lord spoke to them and made such a declaration. When Carol heard this, she turned to me, with obvious annoyance, even anger in her voice and said, “He makes himself to be equal to Joseph Smith.” Someone later told me it would be more appropriate to say he made himself equal to Abraham (Genesis 12:3). In any event, it was at that moment, even though I already had prayed and received numerous witnesses to my soul about Denver’s teachings, I felt the spirit of the Lord whisper to me, “This man is authorized to speak for the Lord. He has keys.”
You know, I’m not so sure we need to rehash what Joseph said, or what Denver said. I only care about what the Lord said. When the Lord tells me something, I sit up and take notice. When the Lord whispers to me, I listen and I take action. That’s why I was baptized – as a witness to the Lord I accepted the message delivered by his messenger, Denver. I feel to bless Denver, and do so in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now you tell me he has been deceived by Satan. Wow. That goes so contrary to what I have felt as I have read his books and have carefully studied his witness of the Savior. I can tell you the teachings of this man have brought me closer to Jesus Christ than the words of any LDS Prophet.
Charles, we don’t need to read everything written against Denver on FAIR or review what Watcher has written in his reviews. If we want to continue this dialog, the focus needs to be on personal revelation to your soul and mine. If you can say the Lord has told you “in His own voice,” that Denver is deceived of Satan when I can tell you the Lord has told me “in His own voice” that Denver is authorized to speak on behalf of the Lord, then there is no point in continuing this dialog. Help me understand how you know the voice of the Lord. I would be more than pleased to discuss my experiences with the voice of the Lord. But if you’re going to curse Denver Snuffer, I don’t want to continue this dialog. What say ye?
I have not heard back from D. Charles Pyle. When I awoke at 2am this morning, in addition to posting my response above, I had an email waiting for me from Keith Henderson. You remember Keith. He was the man who stood at the end of the Mesa lecture and sealed it in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. In his email, he gave me permission to share the following:
The Witness of Keith Henderson
Bishop B——- & others who may read: (I have elected to leave out the bishop’s name.)
I can no longer consider myself in line or in agreement with many of the tenets or “doctrine” of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it exists today. The Church has, in my opinion, moved itself so far from the original idea of the Restoration, and the pure Doctrine of Christ, as restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith, as to be almost un-recognizable to me.
Those things that are particularly offensive to me, and I feel to the Holy Spirit also, are: (See 1-4 below)
1. The requirement to espouse a belief in and follow a man as though he is equal to God, or as though he can stand between me and God and arbitrate my salvation. This is an unauthorized addition to the pure Doctrine of Christ as revealed to us by Nephi, Christ Himself, and Joseph, wherein the scripture says anyone adding to His doctrine is not of Christ, but is against Him, and therefore it follows that anyone believing in such an unauthorized addition makes them also against Christ, and not of His church. (See D&C 10: 57-70. See also 2 Ne. 31: 5 through 2 Ne 32: 6. Also 3 Ne. 11: 31-49.) I believe in the scriptures and not in any such additions by other men.
I have in the past sustained Thomas S. Monson as the man who fills the seat entitled President of the High Priesthood or President of the Church, and have offered my prayers in behalf of him and his counselors, in faith and confidence as required by scripture (see D&C 107: 22). I have offered these prayers that he would measure up, and be sustained by the Lord in the great responsibilities and requirements of this holy office.
When the Church began requiring me to sustain the First Presidency as prophets, seers, and revelators; presumably using the instruction in D&C 107: 92 where it says, “…And to be like Moses; yea to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church;” I complied, believing, and understanding this to be descriptive of a hope, or ambition, not as an office, and to be given as gifts to them, if God willed to do so. I never did presume that sustaining them as prophets, seers, and revelators, empowered them to make the claim to possess these gifts in the absence of God bestowing these things upon them. So I waited for God’s hand to vindicate the expectancy, never thinking that by merely voting I could elevate a mere man to possess what is God’s right alone to give.
It now has become mandatory that I sustain those of the First Presidency as though these gifts are an office, never considering that perhaps the gifts have not been qualified for. I will not continue to raise my hand to sustain men who never reveal, never prophecy, never demonstrate seership, nor who never translate. And if any man has these gifts, he does not need my vote to vindicate his power before God, nor does my sustaining him vindicate his claims. Rather than requiring me to sustain a man’s claims by my vote, perhaps you should require me to vote on the visible and tangible fruits of his claims, and whether I would have them binding on me by my part in the common consent. I, however, do have a testimony of Joseph Smith demonstrating all these gifts by their fruits, thereby qualifying for my sustaining vote.
I have found it way more profitable to follow and rely upon my Savior, Jesus Christ, than to follow President Monson. Actually I have yet to find a requirement in the scriptures stating that I have any obligation to follow any man, but I have found plenty of commandments requiring me to follow Jesus Christ. I do not follow these men, nor will I continue to sustain them as currently required, in that I am required to say they hold all the keys of the Gospel on the earth. I do not believe they do. Further I do not believe they [the leaders] or you [their subservients], when you ask this question as part of the recommend interview, can give a delineated list of what these keys are. Perhaps a list would be helpful, then I could know what is meant, and exactly what I’m subscribing to. Others may choose to believe otherwise or however they please.
I think that for myself I will rather believe what it says in D&C 76: 99-100, that those who say they are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas, or of John, or Moses, or of Elias, or of Esaias, or of Isaiah, or of Enoch, or even of Thomas S. Monson; that they who say they are of one or another, or of the whole lot of these, qualify themselves as belonging only in a Telestial Glory. I don’t want that for myself, and don’t think you should want that for me, or for any other, either. Instead I will continue as I have come to believe, and as it says in 2 Nephi 9: 41-42,
“O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. And whoso knocketh, to him will he open…”
In other words, I do not believe that the First presidency can or should speak to God, on my personal behalf. I do not believe the Twelve Apostles can or should speak to God, on my personal behalf. I will speak to God directly, in the name of my Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ, for and on behalf of my own self, and let Him whose right it is, arbitrate my condition with God, thank you. The Children of Israel begged Moses to speak to God for them, and not require that they personally speak to God for themselves, and for such a revolution they brought judgment upon themselves containing much less than the fullness of the priesthood, as was God’s original intent. Can you imagine that?!
“If the children of Israel in that day, were cursed by God because they said Moses must talk to God and not themselves, how much greater must be the damnation upon those today who say, you must not talk to God, because we have one who does so for you! Who preach that “you are not entitled to receive anything beyond the bonds of your own limited position or calling, in this beehive we’ve constructed!” Damnable heresy! Doctrines of devils! Propounded by those who are purveyors of a false priestcraft! Unauthorized by God! Unsanctioned by Him! They suffer not themselves to enter in and would hedge up the way for me if I gave heed to them.”
Also I do not find anywhere in scripture, nor do I believe there is any kind of requirement to sustain the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators, or that they hold the keys of the Kingdom of God. Nor do I believe that any of these above named men and in particular the Church President, are protected by God, in that they cannot do, or speak falsely, or lead others astray, because God will not allow it, or take them away first, or whatever. For me to believe that, requires me to believe that God has set aside the agency of these men which I do not believe. Others may think however they like, according to their own knowledge.
2. The idea that any man, be he prophet or not, can arbitrarily change any scripture or doctrine or ordinance given by God to the Prophet Joseph Smith without direct revelation by God dictating the change, and the common consent vote of the membership making such a revelatory change binding upon the body.
There are too many instances where this has occurred for me to list all, so I will just use a couple as examples:
A. For example D&C 89, commonly called the Word of Wisdom. The revelation says at the beginning, “To be sent greeting, not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom…” It has, however, been elevated (actually changed, not elevated) to a commandment, and made a “constraining” requirement for entry into the temple. However, not all the revelation in this section is considered in this vein, only verses 5-9. You tell me it is a commandment that I either abstain from these specified items or I will be “constrained” from attending the temple, where you otherwise say my “spiritual” salvation can be assured. This revelation tells me, however, that these things are the will of God in regard to my “temporal” salvation, (verse 2) and says nothing concerning them affecting my spiritual salvation. All other parts of the revelation, and whether or not I obey or disobey, don’t have any bearing on my worthiness. I can eat anything, healthy or otherwise, and it means nothing. But let alcohol or tobacco touch these lips, and I will be disqualified from almost everything, and especially the temple, wherein you say my salvation lies.
Has common sense taken leave of us? I know of no place where further revelation changing this original revelation to a commandment is recorded, and know of no instance in which changes were voted on by common consent to be binding upon the body of the saints. It was done by fiat, by a man, much later than its origination, and now I’m required to just bow and say Okee Dokee. This is not for me. I do not believe God works in any such manner as this. I believe this to be the precepts of men mingled with scripture. I believe, further, this whole section to be a “principle, with a promise,” (verse 3) and one of those items which Joseph meant when he said, “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.” If a mere man can change God’s word on a whim, or even for what he considers a good reason, without God’s intervention commanding him to do so, then all scripture is suspect and only confusion can reign. These are my thoughts and the religion I desire. Others may think and desire whatever they like.
B. Also for instance, the changing of the wording of the prayers on the Sacrament. Every scriptural instance such as, D&C 20: 79; Moroni 5: 2; and the example given in 3 Nephi 18: 8, all tell us that “wine” is the emblem of His blood and you find if you look closely enough, that even though the Lord told Joseph, in one instance, as he went to procure wine from someone whom the Lord knew to be an enemy, that “It mattereth not what you eat or drink,” he never made any allowance for a change in the wording of the prayers. By the way, Joseph returned home from that incident, and with Emma, Newell Knight, and His wife, and John Whitmer, made a “wine” of their own preparation. Water was never used. (see D&C 27: 2-4; also HC 1: 106-108.) Again, where is the Lord’s authorization for the word change in the sacrament prayers, and where is the record of the common consent concurrence by the membership making it binding on the saints? Do we think these things don’t matter to the Lord? I for one, think they do. Others may think how they like.
C. And one more example. I have been a full tithe and offerings payer most all of my adult life. I have felt confidence that my offerings were being used as I directed within the categories offered upon the tithing slip, and beyond that I felt it was indicative of my faith that I allow the use of my paid funds to be administered however the committee on the disposition of the tithes decided was appropriate within those categories. Then all of a sudden a spurious and unsettling statement showed up on the tithing slip which says, “Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church’s property and will be used at the Church’s sole discretion to further the Church’s overall mission.”
Now I have no guarantee that any of the funds I designate in the titled categories on the slip will be used as I thought or desired they be used. My desire has simply been wiped out of the equation by a legalese statement making my money the “Corporation Sole’s” money, and he (President Monson, the church’s sole owner) will damned well use it however he pleases. Not on my watch he won’t! Not with my money he won’t! I will take charge of my own tithing and fast offerings and disburse and care for the poor among and around me as I’m commanded. And others can pray and pay, and do as they like.
I further find out that huge investments are being made, and increased, in land holdings, cattle operations, fruit and nut farms, banks, communication facilities, etc., and that mega-malls and other “for profit” concerns are being built using the tithing funds. I can hear the screams now. “No! No! We are not using tithing funds, but only the investment income and profits we generate from all the investments we make. No tithing is being used.” Ye vipers! Have you not read in Matthew 25: 14-27, the parable of the talents? If so, you do not understand its meaning! The man who receives one talent buries that talent and when the Master requires an accounting he says, “I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed: And I was afraid and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His Lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou newest that I reap where I sowed not, and gathered where I have not strewed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.”
In other words He owns it. He owns all of it. He owns the interest, He owns the investment. He owns it all and it is “His Tithing.” And there is nothing that is generated from tithing that is not tithing, thus making it applicable to the requirements for tithing. In the parable there is no such thing as “investment income.” And have you (meaning the church leaders) shut your eyes and are you blind to the condemnation Nephi heaped upon us when he said, “Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their [our] churches have become corrupted, and their [our] churches are lifted up; because of pride are they [we] puffed up. They [we] rob the poor because of their [our] fine sanctuaries; they [we] rob the poor because of their [our] fine clothing; and they [we] persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they [we] are puffed up.” (2 Nephi 28: 12-13. Insertions are mine.) Who exactly did you think Nephi was speaking about? Do you not know that the Book of Mormon is prophecy rather than history? I personally cannot condone this use of my tithing money in this way, and will not participate any longer in this fraudulent use of the Lord’s money.
Then, the lack of financial accountability to the membership is another whole matter which I deplore, but will not go into other than to say it is a shame on your [the leader’s] part that you do not provide the required accountability and that you seek deep to hide your counsels from the sheep you are shearing [and the Lord]. And it is a shame on our [the member’s] part that we don’t refuse you our common consent, because you don’t provide the scripturally required accountability with clarity.
3. The restructuring of the priesthood, and the correlating of everything to it.
If there is one proof that there is no effective priesthood within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is the hierarchal structuring of the priesthood, and the correlating of all offices, programs, policies, doctrine, and teaching beneath the umbrella of one man’s priesthood. By doing this you [again, the leadership] have negated the priesthood instruction Joseph Smith gave as D&C 121: 34-37. You have, by making a hierarchal structure such as this, built into the priesthood system “control, dominion, and compulsion.” Now I fully understand that this works well for a “for profit” organization, but in the Lord’s church it is forbidden. It furthermore is forbidden upon penalty of forfeiture of priesthood authority and power. In the instruction it says,
“That they [the rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control, dominion, or compulsion upon the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, amen to the priesthood or authority of that man.”
Now the scripture is written on a singular basis, but you [the church leaders] have managed to perpetrate this unrighteousness en mass. A hierarchal structure such as this is all about control, and dominion, and is fertile ground for compulsion. So I ask you, where in this church can priesthood be found? Well, to answer my own question; it can be found in persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and love un-feigned, by kindness, and pure knowledge, without hypocrisy, and without guile. (see D&C 121: 41-42.) Isn’t it interesting that some of our wives are found abounding in these [priesthood] things, while we [the men] are trying to garner to ourselves more control and dominion, and a higher seat, and consequently lose priesthood power, and authority.
All Priesthood power is found only in connecting ourselves to heaven. You might even say, only by connecting ourself to the power of heaven, or in other words connecting ourselves to Jesus Christ. Fortunately some few have been able to do this, and by so doing have garnered to themselves a priesthood recognized in heaven: even as it says in JST Genesis 14: 29, “And it [this priesthood] was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.” This is able to be done because, as I quoted before from 2 Nephi 9: 41, “God, the Holy One of Israel is the keeper of the gate and employeth no servant there.” I would hope more of us would try it. But then, I hope primarily without much faith, because, “few there be that find it.”
4. That those we call prophets have caused the earth to be defiled under the inhabitants thereof by altering and changing the ordinances.
“They have transgressed the law, changed the ordinances, and broken the everlasting covenant.”(Isaiah 24: 5.) Furthermore, Joseph Smith said, “Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed.” (TPJS p.308.) Now tell me how many times in your lifetime have you seen the ordinances in the temple change? This will be dependent upon how old you are; for changes, alterations, subtractions, additions, changes to format, and changes to clothing, have been going on for well over a hundred years.
“Into the darkness that prevails in the minds of men who instigate or authorize changes to the ordinances, enters the devil with such arguments as: “Why do it that way? It really doesn’t matter or mean anything. It is arcane and outdated. It really doesn’t matter as long as you continue to have faith in Christ.” [That particular lie is very effective because it allows the person to presume they have faith, when in fact they haven’t faith sufficient to obey Christ].” Continuing on with the lies: “People will get more out of the changes if we make them. Our numbers will increase. What we change isn’t important anyway. If it were important, we would know that, and since it doesn’t seem important to us, and because our polling data shows it is not important to those who attend, it must, in fact, not be important. Change is proof that God is still leading us.” …And other such arguments and persuasions from our adversary. And all that has happened by making changes to the ordinances is we have been cheated out of God’s gift to us, and we have been carefully led down to hell. I want no part of this anymore, either. Others are free to choose their own course.
Now, after all this, my testimony is:
I believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ. I believe that Joseph Smith was and is the Prophet of this Dispensation of the Restoration of all Things. I believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. And I believe in the many other things Joseph received, which we as a Church have cast off as either not understandable or worthless. [i.e. The Lectures on Faith]. I believe in these revelations and in all the revelations which he wrote, and others yet to come, whether to myself, or to others whom He [Christ] will call as His servants. In fact, I believe God has called a Servant to speak His words in this our very own day; one, in fact, who does speak in the name of the Lord God, and gives His words to us. I believe that Denver C. Snuffer Jr. is that servant and stands as an Abinadi or a Samuel on the wall, or as a Lehi required by God to preach a message to Idol worshipping Jerusalem. And I believe that many will try to kill him or run him out, or destroy the word which God speaks through him. I believe that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to come again on the earth and much is available today because of the translations and revelations of Joseph, and also now again, because of the words of Jesus Christ being spoken to us, in today’s part of the Restoration, through the many writings and revelations and talks of this Denver C. Snuffer Jr.. I believe that the fullness of the priesthood is available to anyone who qualifies and receives it by the voice of Jesus Christ, under the direction of the Father. I do believe there is much worth yet in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in that its crippled ordinances, even now still point the way to knowledge which can be received for real. And most of its people are kind and wonderful and many are my dear friends, but they do not rise up because they don’t know what has happened, and what is available, and simply where to find it. I do not, however, believe that the church or its leaders or any other man can provide salvation for any man or woman, and that to the extent we think they can, we engage in idolatry, and move in proximity away from He through whom salvation comes.
In consequence of this testimony I will obey the will of the Lord in:
Seeking for His continual personal administration.
Seeking for Zion and its establishment.
Participating with and be-friending any individual or group I see fit, whether they be atheist, agnostic, lgbt, apostate, excommunicated or antagonist toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or even if they love the Mormons.
Speaking what I view as truth to whomever I please or am commanded, or to whomever will listen.
Holding study groups in my home on any subject I choose.
Attending study groups in other’s homes upon invitation.
Administering my own tithing and offerings. (See seeking for Zion above.)
Worshipping my God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and according to the will of His Holy Spirit upon me.
Influencing my family in my beliefs.
Influencing others in my beliefs.
At this point, I definitely want to state that no part of this account of my beliefs constitute in any way the resignation of my membership from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am simply exercising by right and claim that all men should be encouraged and allowed to believe and worship how, where, or what they may, and that I should be allowed to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience. The beliefs of a man, according to Joseph Smith, do not determine his goodness nor his worthiness. It is our acceptance and obedience to the scriptures and ordinances which we have all received which should dictate, and not any manual made up by men.
I will understand your desire to exercise your control and dominion over me, and will even tolerate moderate attempts at coercion.
I would like to invite you to exercise your priesthood in this matter, in the Lord’s way. Threats will not sway me. Sanctions you might try to impose will mean nothing to me. Even ex-communication is not a daunting thing to me. I have a priesthood, and an assignment in that priesthood. It comes from a source you can neither influence nor abrogate. You can bless yourselves in how you treat me, and my seemingly, rather unbelievable views, or you can condemn yourselves in the process of your actions; so I would advise you to rely rather heavily on the will of the Lord in any of your matters regarding this.
Keith M. Henderson
October 8, 2014
A Few Final Thoughts
If I were Keith’s Bishop I would be hesitant to act. We can be certain this letter has been seen by Keith’s Stake President, Area President, probably a member of the Twelve and possibly the First Presidency. I presume the Church does not want bad publicity right now, especially after excommunicating the wife of a fellow blogger last Sunday. I can understand why Adrian was disciplined but wonder why they excommunicated his wife in the same council, simply for being his wife and standing by his side. I also wonder what will happen to Keith. What do you think?