The Sacrament


The Sacramental Prayers

Moroni 4:3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

By partaking of the bread, we witness to God that:

1. We are willing to take upon us the name of the Son.
2. We are willing to always remember the Son.
3. We are willing to keep the commandments of the Son which he has given us.

We are willing to do all these things so that we are able to always have the Spirit of the Son to be with us.

Moroni 5:2 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

By partaking of the wine, we witness to God that:

4. We do always remember the Son.

We do this so that we are able to always have the Spirit of the Son to be with us.

Let us examine these things.

Take upon Them the Name of thy Son

“Receive [the Holy Ghost], and take upon you the name of Christ.” (Alma 34:38)

2 Nephi 31:11-13
The Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

“He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me.” This is fulfilled in the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, wherin we can speak with the tongue of angels &c.

JST John 3:34-36
34 For he whom God hath sent, speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fullness.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hands.

36 And he who believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and shall receive of his fullness. But he who believeth not the Son, shall not receive of his fullness; for the wrath of God is upon him.

“Even the fullness.”

That we can both be baptized and not take upon us the name of Christ is easily shown.

Mormon 8:38
O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

These pollutions – “involuntary emissions of semen in sleep” – hypocrites – “one who feigns to be what he is not; one who has the form of godliness without the power” – teachers who sell themselves for that which will canker – riches (D&C 56:16) – have polluted – “defiled” – the holy church of God – which, after the Book of Mormon came forth, was the Church which became the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Non-members cannot defile the holy church of God by their presence.

3 Nephi 18:22-23
And behold, ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not; but ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name.

Therefore Moroni is talking about baptized and confirmed members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 115:4) who have defiled the holy church of God by their presence, and therefore we see that baptism is not whereby we take upon ourselves the name of Christ.

If it were by baptism one took upon oneself the name of Christ, then the sacramental prayer would be redundant, as it is to be administered to those who have been baptized.

3 Nephi 18:5
And when the multitude had eaten and were filled, he said unto the disciples: Behold there shall one be ordained among you, and to him will I give power that he shall break bread and bless it and give it unto the people of my church, unto all those who shall believe and be baptized in my name.

The sacrament is forbidden to those who are not baptized.

3 Nephi 18:27-33
Behold verily, verily, I say unto you, I give unto you another commandment, and then I must go unto my Father that I may fulfil other commandments which he hath given me.

And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it; for whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out from among you, but ye shall minister unto him and shall pray for him unto the Father, in my name; and if it so be that he repenteth and is baptized in my name, then shall ye receive him, and shall minister unto him of my flesh and blood.

But if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered.

Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such shall ye continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent, and come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I shall heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.

Therefore, keep these sayings which I have commanded you that ye come not under condemnation; for wo unto him whom the Father condemneth.

From these two selections, we see that belief in Christ necessarily entails repentance. This link is explicitly made elsewhere.

“[I]f ye believe on his name ye will repent of all your sins, that thereby ye may have a remission of them through his merits.” (Helaman 14:13)

Can you receive a remission of your sins except you repent from all of them?

“And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people in their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.” (Alma 11:34)

“And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.” (2 Nephi 9:38)

(How to render the teachings of the Book of Mormon compatible with D&C 138 is an exercise left to the reader.)

Repenting from all one’s sins is a prerequisite for baptism even today.

D&C 20:37
And again, by way of commandment to the church concerning the manner of baptism—All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.

All of this necessarily precedes the sacrament:

A. Humble themselves before God.
B. Desire to be baptized.
C. Come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits.
D. Witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins.
E. Be willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ.
F. Have a determination to serve him to the end.
G. Truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins.
H. Then be baptized.

Hence Moroni’s cry.

Mormon 9:29
See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

Therefore it is not through baptism by water that one takes upon oneself the name of Christ, but in receipt of the Holy Ghost by fire, the prerequisite to which is to have repented of all one’s sins.

2 Nephi 31:17
Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

2 Nephi 9:41
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.

How do we humble ourselves before God, and repent of all our sins, that we may obtain a remission of them by fire and by the Holy Ghost?

Alma 22:15-18
And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.

But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.

And it came to pass that when Aaron had said these words, the king did bow down before the Lord, upon his knees; yea, even he did prostrate himself upon the earth, and cried mightily, saying: God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day. And now when the king had said these words, he was struck as if he were dead.

Or, shorter:

2 Nephi 25:29
29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

And if not done?

Mormon 9:20
And the reason why he ceaseth to do miracles among the children of men is because that they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should trust.

Moroni 7:37-38
It is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.

For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name; wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also; and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made.

Hearken again.

Alma 38:8
And it came to pass that I was three days and three nights in the most bitter pain and anguish of soul; and never, until I did cry out unto the Lord Jesus Christ for mercy, did I receive a remission of my sins. But behold, I did cry unto him and I did find peace to my soul.

And again.

Mosiah 26:1-4
Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the words of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did not believe the tradition of their fathers.

They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ.

And now because of their unbelief they could not understand the word of God; and their hearts were hardened.

And they would not be baptized; neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God.

“And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
[T]he natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The carnal get the gospel wrong.

Alma 33:19-20
Behold, [Christ] was spoken of by Moses; yea, and behold a type was raised up in the wilderness, that whosoever would look upon it might live. And many did look and live.

But few understood the meaning of those things, and this because of the hardness of their hearts. But there were many who were so hardened that they would not look, therefore they perished. Now the reason they would not look is because they did not believe that it would heal them.

Looking symbolizes calling upon the name of the Lord for the remission of one’s sins.

Mosiah 4:8-10
And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is none other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

Illustrating this process was the point of including Enos’s struggle.

Enos 1:1-8
Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord—and blessed be the name of my God for it—

And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins.

Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.

And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.

And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.

And I said: Lord, how is it done?

And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.

How great a burden rests upon parents.

D&C 68:25
And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

Are you willing to do these things? Have you done these things? Do you teach these things?

This is, after all, what it means to “come unto Christ,” – to call upon the Lord until you have faith in Christ and receive of his Spirit unto the remission of your sins. Then are you worthy of baptism and a remission of your sins by fire and the Holy Ghost, wherein you take upon you the name of Christ.

3 Nephi 27:20
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

Always Remember Him

The scriptures are largely silent on this topic, except to promise that if you always remember Christ, you will have his Spirit to be with you.

Keep His Commandments Which He Hath given Them

In the interests of space, I will refer you to 3 Nephi 10 – 3 Nephi 15, wherein are found the commandments of the Savior. Whenever the Savior opened his mouth to teach during his mortal ministry, these were the things he taught. These are the precepts – standing orders pertaining to our daily walk – of the Lord; they start with coming unto him and being baptized by fire (3 Nephi 12:1-2) and from thence walking according to his commandments, abounding in good works. There are enlightening differences found in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible which deserves careful study.

There is one in particular, however, that needs to be mentioned.

“Ye are therefore commanded to be perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.” (JST Matthew 5:50)

Because…

“Break not my commandments for to save your lives; for whosoever will save his life in this world, shall lose it in the world to come.” (JST, Matthew 16:27)

How do we keep that commandment?

“And above all things, clothe yourselves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace.” (D&C 88:125)

Moroni 7:48
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

“Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.” (Mark 9:23)

That They May Always Have His Spirit to Be with Them

Moroni 10:31; Moroni 10:32-33
And again I would exhort you that ye would come unto Christ, and lay hold upon every good gift, and touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing.

Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

This is the endgame – “the” remission of your sins, rather than “a” remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

Ether 12:28
Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.

32 Responses

  1. From 2 Ne 31:13: “…ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism…”

    “That we can both be baptized and not take upon us the name of Christ is easily shown.”

    “…baptism is not whereby we take upon ourselves the name of Christ.”

    So baptism is NOT a witness that we take upon us the name of Christ, only that we are WILLING to do so.

    It is in the Sacrament that we actually take upon us the name of Christ.

    Is that an accurate summary of the post?

    Or is it somewhere else entirely besides baptism or the Sacrament where we take upon ourselves the name of Christ?

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    • It seems to me that taking upon ourselves the name of Christ would mean always being WILLING to: then, as God authorizes us in EACH MOMENT, acting in His name.

      This would include (but isn’t limited to) speaking in His name, giving to the poor in His name, taking in a stranger in His name, praying in His name, and so forth.

      I don’t have the memory I used to have, nor the extensive scriptural knowledge Log has, so I rely a great deal on people like him or the reader to prove such statements themselves. Gets you into the scriptures more, I guess. And me, too.

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  2. Alma 34:38 “That ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive it, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.”

    That statement of Joseph comes to mind: “You might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, if not done in view of the remission of sins and getting of the Holy Ghost. Baptism by water is but half a baptism, and is good for nothing without the other half—that is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost.”

    I wonder how may people have been baptized of water and have never received the Holy Ghost. President Faust taught the doctrine of being born of the spirit – receiving the Holy Ghost – in this conference address:

    https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/born-again?lang=eng

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  3. “38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? [bold] Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? [/bold] Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?” Mormon 8:38.

    We can be baptized and take the sacrament yet still be ashamed to take upon us the name of Christ. Mormon laments that this “[pollutes] the holy church of God.”

    Daymon Smith in his last volume of the Cultural History addresses the NAME of Jesus Christ (one of the last chapters). I’m still trying to figure it out. However, this quote from Daymon might be helpful: “For what it’s worth, in the ancient world a ‘name’ was supposed to be connected to the essence of the thing, convey its spirit-being.”

    Mormon’s self-directed questions probe into the state of our own spirit-being:

    “39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?

    40 Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads?

    41 Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.” Mormon 8:39-41.

    If our spirit-being was Christ’s, we would not be guilty of Mormon’s admonition.

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    • I found this helpful:

      “We have looked at the language in The Lectures on Faith. We have looked at Joseph’s sermon in the April 1844 General Conference, and we have looked at D&C section 93. All of them speak of the Father coming to “dwell in Christ.” Every week you hear the sacrament prayers petitioning for God the Eternal Father to send Christ’s Spirit come and dwell in you. See D&C 20: 73-79 The Spirit that came to dwell in Christ was the Spirit of the Father. Christ’s Spirit is to dwell in you. Who’s Spirit dwells in Christ? And so we all become one.”

      Ephriam P. 48.

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  4. It seems for the greater good I maybe should comment.

    It is in receiving the Holy Ghost by fire that we take upon us the name of Christ, being filled with light and love (Alma 34:38 – “Receive [the Holy Ghost], and take upon you the name of Christ.”). We are sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost (3 Nephi 27:20 – “Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.”), and thus become the saints (sanctified ones) of God through the Atonement of Christ (3 Nephi 28:11 – “And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men, because of me.”).

    Mosiah 3:19

    For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

    The pollutions which Moroni refers to are those members of the Church who are ashamed to repent and thereby take upon them the name of Christ by receiving the Holy Ghost. It would involve giving up their power, popularity, authority, or position among the people. Therefore, rather than repent, they justify themselves and the traditions by which they have gained their power, popularity, authority, or positions among the people. Think of the great and spacious building.

    I really don’t want to go into it in detail, but Mormon 8 seems a description of our day.

    The word “churches” used throughout might be better understood as “wards.”

    Here’s why this identification is plausible.

    Mosiah 25:22 – “And thus, notwithstanding there being many churches they were all one church, yea, even the church of God; for there was nothing preached in all the churches except it were repentance and faith in God.”

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    • I know this is going to seem like a very basic question, but I’m thinking of one person in particular who is seeking reassurance on this point. We know that a man or woman can receive the Holy Ghost and not have it tarry with them.

      Is it safe to assume such an experience could not be a baptism of fire? I’m thinking of the Lamanites in the prison with Nephi and Lehi in Helaman 5. The Lord said they were baptized with fire and they knew it not. Yet they hadn’t been baptized in water.

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      • Is it ever safe to assume anything pertaining to salvation?

        Why is this question being asked of me, rather than through fasting and mighty prayer – of whatever duration required – being asked of God?

        At least with God you know the answer will be true.

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      • I resolutely refuse to play the role of Answerman.

        I made that mistake once.

        Playing the Answerman entails obviating the exercise of faith on the part of others. The point is for each man to know the Lord for himself – which can’t happen when someone’s answering their questions without them having to forge their own connection to heaven through faith and obtain revelations by obedience and diligence.

        Faith, diligence, obedience to the precepts of the Lord, praying always, abounding in good works, having a mind focused solely on the service of God – these are the things which open the heavens.

        Ether 3:2

        O Lord, thou hast said that we must be encompassed about by the floods. Now behold, O Lord, and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before thee; for we know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires.

        Tell your friend to disregard whatever feelings of unworthiness or uncleanness he possesses and wax bold in mighty prayer unto God asking for what he most desires.

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    • One more reference I just found.

      Abraham 1:18 Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.

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      • This is in line with this.

        Moses 6
        64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

        65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

        66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;

        67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.

        68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

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  5. Sorry, Log. Was throwing it out there for general discussion. Wasn’t necessarily directed at you. Of course we should never assume. I have asked the Lord, and have felt the answer to be yes, one can be baptized of fire BEFORE being baptized of water. This is not a currently accepted doctrine of the LDS Church.

    Sometimes we get so hung up on the order of things. 3 Ne 9:20 is an amazing verse. It is a direct quote of the Lord telling us we can receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost without first being baptized of water. I know there were some dissenters in the group that were baptized of fire on that day, but as far as I know, the majority were unbaptized Lamanites.

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    • Oh, that. The account in Helaman 5 seems crystal clear to me (especially considering Ether 12:14) – but the Lord phrases things as he does (as in 3 Nephi 9:20) so that it may work upon the hearts of the children of men according to his will (D&C 19:7).

      Therefore, where the scriptures are silent, so am I.

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  6. Tim,

    You actually bring up another point which maybe deserves addressing.

    Is there any merit to people discussing and / or agreeing on points where the scripture is silent?

    Remember Nicea.

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    • Log,

      No. I enjoy discussing scripture AND commentary. Not only that, I enjoy discussing the commentators themselves. I know, commentary is just one person’s opinion. Or is it? Scriptural commentators have always helped me in my gospel study.

      I am especially interested in commentators who claim inspiration or revelation in their exegesis. And why should I care about someone else’s thoughts on scripture? Isn’t that simply the “Teachings of men, mingled with scripture?”

      I have found much good in the writings and the teachings of such commentators when they inspire me to search the scriptures or go get revelation for myself. There is so much in the scripture that is not understood or is misunderstood. I am careful in who I read for inspiration.

      After all, aren’t the scriptures themselves commentary in many places – the letters of Paul – as opposed to revelation? Many passages in the Book or Mormon are also commentary, especially the commentaries on the words of Isaiah.

      What if one man believes the scriptures are silent on a subject and another man shows him they speak clearly on that subject when put together in a certain sequence? I think that’s why I enjoy your posts. They are like that.

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  7. Among the LDS there is a tradition that the sacrament is a renewal of baptismal covenants. Is there a reliable source (scriptures, Joseph Smith) for this?

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    • Lemuel,

      Would you be a dear and go through the standard works, and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and see if you can find any explicit reference to any such thing as a “baptismal covenant” whatsoever?

      For your convenience, the scriptures are here, and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith is here.

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      • Mosiah 18: 8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;

        9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

        10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

        11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.

        12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.

        13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world.

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        • Marc,

          If you read that very closely, you will note that baptism is the witness of having already entered into a covenant. Behold my emphasis.

          “[W]hat have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him…”

          Note the past-tense.

          I grant the distinction is subtle, but entering the covenant is the precondition for baptism, the first act in fulfillment of which is to be baptized according to the commandment of the Lord.

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        • Well done. I agree and the Spirit accords.

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  8. I found that post on the Sacrament most helpful. Thank you. Now on to the True Order of Prayer… Please.

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  9. I have never commented on any blog and I read many, daily. But the time has come. I have become a student of your teachings. Thank you so much for light and truth. Beginning with your writings on the Golden Rule and those to date, I have studied and pondered all. I compiled everything you wrote (including comments to comments) on the Golden Rule and gave them in a little booklet to my several brothers and sisters. All have praised and voiced appreciation for your insights. Please continue your willingness to feed some very hungry masses, largely unknown to you or to Tim. The good stuff always trickles down, and quenches thirst.

    I am puzzled by this you wrote in your essay on the Sacrament:

    These pollution’s – “involuntary emissions of semen in sleep”

    I am having a hard time understanding this concept. I don’t get it as I study the context in which you place it. Could you address this for me?

    Blessings to you this day, Log

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    • “Ye pollutions” = “you congealing puddles of spent sperm.”

      Ref 1
      Ref 2

      It’s gutter talk, similar to Isaiah 64:6, wherein our righteousness is compared to used tampons.

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      • Factories, little or big, do pollute…

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  10. I may have missed it, but I think you may have overlooked a very important scripture wh. links the Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost and partaking of the Sacrament (or at least making the same covenants) leading one to become a child of Christ.
    Mosiah 4:2-7
    2. And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words wh. thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, wh. has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.
    3. And we, ourselves, also, through the infinite goodness of God, and the manifestations of His Spirit have great views of that wh. is to come; and were it expedient, we could prophesy of all things.
    4. And it is the faith wh. we have had on the things wh. our king has spoken unto us that has brought unto us this great knowledge, whereby we do rejoice with such exceedingly great joy.
    5. And we are willing to enter into a covenant with our God to do His will, and to be obedient to His commandments in all things that He shall command us, all the remainder of our days, that we may not bring upon ourselves a never-ending torment, as has been spoken of by the angel, that we may not drink out of the cup of the wrath of God.
    6. And now, these are the words wh. king Benjamin desired of them; and therefore he said unto them: Ye have spoken the words that I desired ; and the covenant wh. ye have made is a righteous covenant.
    7. And now, because of the covenant wh. ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, His sons, and His daughters; for behold, this day He hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on His name; therefore, ye are born of Him and have become His sons and His daughters.

    These people had just received the BFHG and then in verse 5 they speak words wh. clearly suggest they are making the covenants we make when we take the Sacrament, and this leads king Benjamin to pronounce them the children of Christ.

    JRU

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    • Because the phrase “baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost” does not appear in Mosiah 4, and because neither does the sacrament, I have therefore not used Mosiah 4 to link the two.

      Because there is no covenant in the sacramental prayers, neither in the administration thereof, nor in the partaking thereof, therefore I do not mention any such covenants.

      This post is not intended to be an exhaustive treatise on the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and it is not intended to establish teachings which are not established in the scriptures.

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    • In fact, JR, you tangentially touch upon a subject which I have been giving a lot of thought to recently, but I think may be summed up in a few citations, as is my wont.

      3 Nephi 19:8
      8 And when they had ministered those same words which Jesus had spoken—nothing varying from the words which Jesus had spoken—behold, they knelt again and prayed to the Father in the name of Jesus.

      Mosiah 18:19
      19 And he commanded them that they should teach nothing save it were the things which he had taught, and which had been spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets.

      Alma 13:1, Alma 13:6
      1 And again, my brethren, I would cite your minds forward to the time when the Lord God gave these commandments unto his children; and I would that ye should remember that the Lord God ordained priests, after his holy order, which was after the order of his Son, to teach these things unto the people. {These things = these commandments}

      6 And thus being called by this holy calling, and ordained unto the high priesthood of the holy order of God, to teach his commandments unto the children of men, that they also might enter into his rest—

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  11. I believe the Sacrament is a covenant in that we ask God to perform something , we say what we are doing and why, and then we ask Him to give us something in return. It is true the exact words “BFHG” are not mentioned in these verses, however, a mighty change of heart is synonymous. Also, we do not have the exact words used by those Nephites, only king Benjamin’s explanation of what happened. I mentioned this to bring something to the discussion wh. the Spirit pointed out to me. I will leave it at that.
    JRU

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    • Peace, James. The field is yours to sow and reap as you will.

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  12. Thanks for this post.
    It helped me understand a lot of things I am going through and those scripture references brought the spirit on very strongly.
    I know that the only way I can KNOW any truth is through God. I am grateful that sometimes he manifests truths to me through others experiences that are shared.
    Something I have been studying and praying about for some time came to mind here and I am wondering if anyone has any insights or spiritual knowledge on the matter that may help me in my studies.
    I have pondered about the idea of children getting baptized at the age of 8 which is taught in the D&C.
    In Moroni 8:it says the the baptism of children is an evil abomination. You have to read the whole chapter but I didn’t want to copy it all here.
    9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.
    10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.
    11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.
    12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism!
    13 Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell.
    14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.
    15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism.
    In D&C 20:71
    71 No one can be received into the church of Christ unless he has arrived unto the years of accountability before God, and is capable of repentance.
    Received into the church of Christ? Do we need to be received by a church or just by Christ? And who is responsible to decide when it is time to do the things necessary to be received? I would assume each person for themselves.
    D&C 20:37 which was referred on the post ( and I liked the breakdown of this scripture that was given on the post)
    37 And again, by way of commandment to the church concerning the manner of baptism—All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.
    Are these things really something that an 8 year old child can truly understand at such a young age? Also what is the necessity of this age requirement spoken of only in D&C?
    Moroni 8:17
    17 And I am filled with charity, which is everlasting love; wherefore, all children are alike unto me; wherefore, I love little children with a perfect love; and they are all alike and partakers of salvation.
    How could a child need baptism when God himself says they are all alike and partakers of salvation? No requirements necessary!
    I just turned 30 this year and this has been the first year of my life ever that I have begun to understand repentance, atonement, Christ’s love, baptism and the fire. I thought because I had been baptized at 8 and confirmed and “received the Holy Ghost” that all of the good feelings and motivation at church and life were the spirit manifesting in my life. Things people call the “warm fuzzies” If good things were not happening or being felt, I must be doing something wrong. Until I came to a place where I needed Christ so badly and was in much despair, through prayer and a broken heart and contrite spirit and much faith provided by God was I given forgiveness and a baptism of fire. This spirit is like nothing I have ever known before in my life. The things I believed before and thought I knew are nothing now because I have learned pure truths through God. I believe that God brought me to this place in my life and it was my time to receive this. He has broken down the whole foundation I’ve been on as a Faithful and devout mormon and begun to rebuild me a sure foundation of pure truths from Him.
    I have a 7 year old daughter. I can only
    Pray wholeheartedly that she can experience these things and much more as soon as possible.
    But with her pure soul and perfect heart, does she need to learn such a thing as repentance at this time? Does she have need for the baptism of water or fire right now when she may not understand it? I know of nothing about her that is imperfect before our creator.

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    • D&C 68
      25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

      26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.

      27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.

      28 And they shall also teach their children to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord.

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    • If my counsel were sought, I would not seek counsel from my fellow man on these topics, but rather weary the Lord until he answered my concerns. When it comes to our duty towards our children, I don’t know that I would be satisfied by someone’s opinion.

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