Be Ye Clean That Bear The Vessels of the Lord


Jesus_SacramentI am grateful for the responses to the two posts that have been written. I understand a lot of this is somewhat new to people and yet so many of you received it by the Spirit so quickly. It shows the preparation that has been done in our souls to release us from the bondage of false beliefs. How many more falsehoods are in us that need to be rooted out? God is pruning us back and preparing us to be able to go out and help with His pruning of the vineyard. I hope those of you have received testimonies of this will go out and share with others.

If you haven’t read the first two posts than I would suggest going back to read them before reading this one, or else this might be a little odd. : )

So again to the sacrament…

3 Nephi 18:1-4

And it came to pass that Jesus commanded his disciples that they should bring forth some bread and wine unto him. And while they were gone for bread and wine, he commanded the multitude that they should sit themselves down upon the earth. And when the disciples had come with bread and wine, he took of the bread and brake and blessed it; and he gave unto the disciples and commanded that they should eat. And when they had eaten and were filled, he commanded that they should give unto the multitude.

In both the account of the Nephites, and the account of those in Jerusalem, the Savior imparted first to the disciples, who in turn would impart to others. Also an interesting tidbit that will make more sense is that they ate and drank until they “were filled.” Ok so what is the point of this? I am just going to bust out quite a few scriptures that will open our eyes a little more to what is going on.

1 Pet 1:10

As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Num 11:25

And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Num 27:18-20

And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;  And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight.  And thou shalt put some of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.

Ok so certainly you are starting to get the point.  We talked about how Jesus imparted of His Spirit to us all.  Now, as some of you have already caught on to, we will talk about how we can literally impart of our very own spirits to other people, and what the “laying on of hands” is really about.  I am so happy to be able to share these things when so many others could do it more eloquently.  I’m sure that from the scriptures referenced above many are not convinced so let’s keep going.

2 Kings 2:9-15

And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;  And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the Lord God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over. And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

ChariotOfFireI love this because Elisha had already received of Elijah’s spirit but he wanted more!  Also interesting to note that Elijah knew that in order for Elisha to be able to receive that amount of “spirit”, he would also have to be able to see it with his physical eyes.  He wanted to be sure Elisha was sanctified to the necessary degree; also that it was according to God’s will.

I’m sure we would like some from the Book of Mormon so it is not some mis-translation. In Alma 31:26-35 Alma implored the Lord in prayer for power to go out and bless and save souls, then power was given to him and –

Alma 31:36

Now it came to pass that when Alma had said these words, that he clapped his hands upon all them who were with him. And behold, as he clapped his hands upon them, they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

We can begin to see what the operation of the priesthood is really about and think of times we have seen it in action.  Many of you have given blessing and felt the power of the spirit coursing through you and down through your arms into the head of the recipient who asked in faith.  We usually talk about this like we are being a conduit that God works through for a moment, but I know by the Holy Ghost that we are more like reservoirs or wells and we can impart of our own spirit to people.

For a couple of examples we can look to the woman who touched the hem of the garment of Jesus and he perceived that “virtue had gone out of Him”. (Luke 8:43-48)

Alma 8:30-32

And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.  And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; Nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them. And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

AlmaAmulekPrisonI love this because remember when people were being thrown into the fire and Amulek wanted to raise their hands and call down fire from heaven?  He knew they really could have! The power was in them. This is the strict command of people who are sent from God. They will be given power, but at that point we must use it with exactness and not go beyond the word of the Lord. Remember Moses being chastised when he caused water to flow out of the rock, but he did it just a bit differently than God had asked? I used to think it was odd that God would chastise him, when it was God who did the miracle, but it was the power of God that had been given to Moses, so in a way it could be said Moses did it.

When satan came tempting Jesus in the wilderness, we have always been taught that he was trying to appeal to the pride or doubt that Jesus didn’t have. “If Thou art the son of God.., then do such and such.” Well that may have been part of it, but satan was also trying to get Jesus to use the power, or spirit that rested upon Him, in any other way than what the Father wanted. He knew that if Jesus used His Spirit to do anything even slightly different than commanded, it would not be imparted properly to all of God’s children and souls would be lost.

I just realized this is getting long although there is so much more to say. In 1 Thessalonians 2:8 Paul taught that “So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.”  He was not speaking figuratively here.  He literally had given portions of himself to others. This portion of spirit can be called “grace,” it can be called “virtue,” and it can be called “power.” The operation of it is what most of us refer to as priesthood. It can be done by men and women.

LastSupperLargeWhen this transfer of spirit happens, we become linked with the other person, until that person either accepts or rejects that portion of spirit. This is not always comfortable. Once I gave a woman a blessing not long after I had been converted and she was healed immediately by her faith. After the blessing I was physically weakened. I was drained of a portion of spiritual power that had been given me. I’m sure readers have had similar experiences.

When one is sent, they will be asked to give of themselves in whatever way God asks. It may be through healings, it may be through prophesying, it may be through music, but whatever it is. God will tell us clearly and we will know what we are asked to do. The point is we must be willing to do ANYTHING, even taking up our cross, and “drinking the cup” to whatever degree we can. When we are baptized or “glorified” by the Spirit of Christ, THIS is when we become partakers of the “heavenly gift.” This has been a topic discussed with some frequency lately : ).

When we impart of our spirit to others, we become their “father,” or “mother.” This is all according to the “patriarchal order,” or where we stand in the body of Christ. Elisha called out “father, father!” when Elijah imparted to him. These people become the Savior’s of mount Zion. I have been told by revelation that the 144,000 are all fathers, and their spouses are mothers to the rest of the people of Christ.

JesusOrdainingApostlesEvery single time that we feel the burning, flowing power of the Spirit, God is filling the tank. We are having virtue stored up inside of us so that God can use us. People are imparting of their spirits now. I liked how one brother called it “soul fracturing.” Often this leaves us drained and with a feeling of sluggishness or heaviness until we are refilled. This truth helps us understand speeches of “imparting of our substance,” like King Benjamin gave a little better. Also when Joseph Smith received that we become equal in temporal things, so we can become equal in heavenly things.

In the Bible and Book of Mormon we see people that were told that whoever they laid their hands on would receive the Holy Ghost.  Right now this is not in operation because no one has received the “stature of the fullness of Christ,” and been glorified by His Spirit in the flesh, but God is leading us there, and promised that the Spirit of the Lord would rest upon one in the latter days, and spread from their until “All shall know the Lord, from the least to the greatest.”

This is also why people argued in the Bible, (a brother who commented brought this up) and bragged that they were baptized by John, or Paul, or Cephas etc. They were arguing over which was greater and whose spirit was stronger that had been imparted. Paul had to correct them and say, “Hey morons, Christ imparted unto us all, and we are all baptized unto Him, it doesn’t matter who imparted to you.” Sorry that was not a direct quote : ) Also remember John saying “I have need to be baptized of Thee.”

Ok gotta wrap this up. So to finish I just want to repeat that Christ imparted to us all, but that does not mean more cannot be imparted. The seed grows from within, and can be nourished from without. The light that we should hold up is Christ, like He taught in the Book of Mormon. Paul told Timothy to “Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.” This might have some more meaning. We do not want to impart to the wrong people.

1 Corinthians 4:15

For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

So many things will become more clear, like Melchizedek being “without father, or mother”…

To finish I will go back to Christ being the vine. If you have seen vines grow (most anyway), you will see the branches shoot off and then sprout leaves, that grow into more branches, and spread more and more, and yet all go back to the True Vine, who is Christ. Will we become the vine for others? I pray for the day. God bless. There are still a lot of bombs to be dropped so stay tuned and I pray the Spirit will confirm the truths that have been shared.

30 Responses

  1. Some thoughts for myself before I forget them. Recording 2-3 questions I had to go back and look up later today. No response needed.

    Is this Spirit of the Lord? Or Holy Spirit? If they are all degrees of the same power does it really matter?
    “And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders:”

    In one place someonet alks about how Elijah could not give Elisha a “double portion” because (defined it as fulness of priesthood) that priesthood can only be given by God. Than if that is the case how does “this spirit” “priesthood” or as you used often “power” relate? Its the power of godiness which is related to the “presence of God”… You may have responded to some of it here “He literally had given portions of himself to others. This portion of spirit can be called “grace,” it can be called “virtue,” and it can be called “power.” The operation of it is what most of us refer to as priesthood. It can be done by men and women.”

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  2. Some quotes. You brought up not “touching” that whihc is unpure. The following quotes are in reference to “God not setting foot here” or being “touched by God”…

    “The Father Ahman, however, only appears in a state of glory, has not stood here since the Fall of Adam, and awaits the completion of the work of Christ before He will again take up His abode here.” -DS Ether’s Reference to Christ as Father

    “when you enter into His presence, it is a matter of course, that God invariably forgives your sins. Isaiah in the temple saw God high and lifted up. And his first reaction was, “Woe is me! I am undone! I am a man of unclean lips. I dwell among a people of unclean lips.” It required one of the Seraphim, one of the “fiery ones,” to improvise an ordinance in which he took a coal off the altar with tongs to touché Isaiah’s lips to purify them.” (Lecture Series, Boise, page 9)

    “So while he [Joseph] was in the act of calling upon God he discovered a light appearing in his room, “which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.” [As an interesting aside, I want to ask the question, why? Why did Moroni stand in the air with his feet not touching the ground? It’s an interesting topic that we are not going to talk about here. It’s off subject and it won’t get us Zion anyway but there is “stuff” here.]” (page 18)

    “”And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger.” [Now I want to pause because the only thing that the brother of Jared ever sees at this point, is His finger. The Lord may stretch forth His hand, but the only thing seen is His finger.]” (pg 271 combined 10 lectures or page 19 in Lecture 8)

    “The hand of God never emerges, only His finger. You can read it in verse 6 and again in verse 9. The Lord asks him, “Did you see more that this?” “No,” he answers, “just the finger.” I put one of the stones I used in my experiment into my hand. Let’s assume for the moment I have 8 in one hand and 8 in the other, as the brother of Jared. Let’s assume someone else touches it in my hand. It is impossible to touch the stone in a man’s hand without the one holding the stone feeling it has been touched.

    We read this record, but we fail to notice what was really happening. They were in his hands, eight and eight, and the Lord touched them one by one with His finger. Now, there is nothing in this record that suggests that after the last stone gets touched, or after the stone the Lord was touching at the moment that the finger is seen, there were anymore stones remaining to be touched. They were touched. First one, then another, one by one. Sixteen times this was repeated. This record read fairly suggests to me that the brother of Jared stood there and witnessed 15 of the 16 stones, felt the touch on 15 of the 16 stones, before on the very last stone he saw the finger of the Lord. Think about that for a moment. Think about coming into contact, admittedly through a stone, but coming into contact with the Lord when He manifests Himself for the first time to man physically. Think about that. (ibid)

    3 Nephi 11, ” 14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
    15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
    16 And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:
    17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.”

    The 3 Nephites in 3 nephi 28.

    Lord always gives us what WE desire… “What is it that ye desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?” [As the temple says at the veil, What is wanted? You see its no longer do this or that but its what do you want now? Its called self selection.]

    ” 12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he TOUCHED every one of them with his finger save it were the three who were to tarry, and then he departed.”

    The 3 who were not touched.

    ” 17 And now, whether they were mortal or immortal, from the day of their transfiguration, I know not;”

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  3. Again in 2nephi 32. The Holy Ghost shows us all things we should do until Christ shall manifest Himself in the flesh. From then on we are being taught by a higher power. Jesus also has the title of Holy Ghost. These are keys or names etc. the Holy Ghost works upon those who have been changed in spirit but not been born again in the flesh

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    • Minority of One said: “the Holy Ghost works upon those who have been changed in the spirit but not been born again in the flesh.”

      I think I know what you mean by “born again in the flesh”, but would you explain please, just in case I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying.”

      Also, do you have a blog or do you post regularly on any other forums?

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  4. I don’t have another blog. I tried freedomforum but I found everyone was always arguing and I could not find much edification, but that was not in any private conversations. I would love to find another forum just to participate in gospel conversation if anyone knows of any.
    What I mean by my comment is that our spirits can be sanctified and cleanse but the elements of our body must also be sanctified and melded perfectly with our spirits. The whole earth must eventually be sanctified by the Spirit of Christ. I liked how Tyson (or Denver) talked about Christ not setting foot on the earth yet. The Spirit had told me that once Gods people begin to receive the Spirit of The Lord in the flesh that every footstep they take will heal part of the earth. Think of washing of the feet etc. His Spirit will abide and go everywhere their feet take them.

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    • Minority, I beleive that you are referring to the higher state of mortality, that is, the state of those who lived in Enoch’s Zion, and it is what we call translation.

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      • Yes exactly. Thank you. Or transfiguration. There are so many words describing the same thing. Baptism, glorification, twinkle: ) all referring to this change that we seek. It is not beyond any of us. The church often talks about translation like it is not something to seek after or that it won’t happen until the millennium.

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        • With you there. Translation is something I also sought after reading the scriptures without any prompting except by the Holy Ghost.

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  5. Also I do have a testimony of eternal lives but for now I do not want to get into that in my posts because then everything can get confusing quickly and some people just cannot stand the thought of it… : )

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    • Wait. We are all born again in the flesh here and now so what do you mean the Holy Ghost does not work on us? (Because we are the ones “born again in the flesh” are we not?) Did I miss what you were saying there? I don’t think you need to get into Eternal lives to clarify this 🙂 Maybe I should back and read what the comment was in reference to lol.

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  6. Tyson

    We hope we will be born again in the flesh here! I would not want to come back again to do it!

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  7. What is the difference between coming out of the waters of babtism filled with the Holy Ghost OR receiving the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands?

    It’s a serious question that confuses me. What’s the difference?

    It will really help if you can expound this for me…thank you!

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    • Great question. One is given by a man who has reached a particular station and one is given by an unseen being or God Himself. Some people upon the experience of being baptized by fire feel unseen hands placed upon their heads. Right now it has to be done by angelic ministration because no one in earth has the authority that whomsoever they lay their hands will receive the Holy Ghost. Now the church commissions people to “receive the Holy Ghost”. If someone has received the name of “Christ” then they are given authority to give the Holy Ghost to anyone that is supposed to receive it. If someone is given the name of “The Father” meaning God the Father they can then impart the name of Christ to others. I happen to believe (for good reason) that the baptism of fire is not the same thing as the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost can baptize someone with fire but that is not the fulness of the Holy Ghost. Hope that helps.

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  8. This is a great post. I have learned these things by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is nice to learn these things by the spirit and then see scriptures after the fact that support what the spirit has taught.
    Looking at the start of the post where you asked, how many more falsehoods do we need to be uprooted got me thinking about my experiences with this and how much more I have to go… God has been way merciful to me even with all of the false beliefs and things that I thought were true being a member of the LDS church growing up. I have learned as time has gone on that I can only trust what has been given me as the SUBSTANCE of truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. Yes, when we fill the spirit there is a substance that comes with it. Just like your posts says, Christ broke pieces of himself off and gave it to his children. He gave portions of himself freely and became their father. The bread and wine to me are symbolic of being an actual substance just as the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are actual substances. They are the only things we should trust and God has to sometimes uproot falsehoods before he is able to replace it with the spirit. I do know and have experienced that God truly loves those he chastens and I have had to be chastised and corrected many times. Gods love and a portion of his spirit always comes with it and I am grateful every time. We just need to be open to ANYTHING and everything but not trust anything along the way except for the spirit and what it teaches. The more we open up, the more we will learn and the bigger portion of the spirit God will be willing to give us. God loves to give and has is arm extended, wanting to give to whoever truly is willing to receive!!
    Thanks for the post. God be given the glory forever!!

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    • Revenger!

      I like the name. Thanks for your testimony and amen. You got me thinking about how falsehoods must be removed. The Spirit is Truth, literally, or at least it carries Truth. You got me wondering if it is literally blocked or a gap of us is filled with a “falsehood”. Just a weird and random thought with no knowledge behind it but I have also learned that falsehoods are literal stumbling blocks. We must admit when we don’t know something. And when we receive a revelation we must not add to it to fit into our paradigm just because we think it means more than it does. I guess it boils down to putting no trust in man, even ourselves. Thanks again.

      Marc

      I just was pondering and learned something else by the spirit applicable to what you asked. The person baptizing the other already has physical contact with the person being baptized. This is huge! The laying on of hands can be performed right at the act of immersing them in the water and the Spirit is transferred from the one with authority to the other. This is why the person performing the baptism must be filled with power. Just learned it from God and I know it is true. Thanks for being the catalyst for me pondering on that.

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  9. I enjoy your posts very much. They are very enlightening. I have read Fools Crow who was a great Indian healer. He suggests we should be considered “hollow bones” meaning we should cleanse our vessel and become a conduit for the power of God to flow through us as we prepare ourselves for God’s work. I am comparing your view of storing up God’s power or virtue in my vessel verses becoming a hollow conduit for the Lord to send power through. Obviously both methods may be appropriate. In both cases it is only God’s will that must be accomplished. What else, if anything, can you teach us on this concept?

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    • Bill

      Thank you for teaching me. I would love to check out A Fools Crow and will add that study to my list. In all solemnity I can only add that I knew nothing until I was told by our Father in Heaven that I could speak with our Mother.
      I will do a post on this at some point but that is a topic that will take a lot more writing than I can put into these comments. “Man is not without woman IN THE LORD”. There is more than one way to interpret this verse.
      There is a spirit from the Father, and from the Mother. One without the other is not enough. She CAN speak to us and spoke multiple times in the scriptures. She is beginning to reveal Herself to more and more people and has not been silent in the past. The Tao Te Ching is a good read. The Shekinah is worthy of study. Even the Holy Spirit is actually a female word.
      If anyone has not prayed to know if they can speak to the Mother I implore you to ask His permission. Many people would feel confident to enter the presence of our Father, but would tremble in fear to face their Mother who they have never even thought to worship or try and get to know. Another good read is autobiography of a yogi. Obviously people of the Mormon persuasion might think this sounds a bit nutty…., but you might consider.

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      • I’ve had a similar experience speaking with our Mother. She is real. She does speak. And She is full of love. In all meekness, she truly, truly is.

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  10. Minority of One,

    I like what you said about falsehoods being stumbling blocks. It reminded me of when Nephi prays and asks to have his stumbling blocks removed and placed in front of his enemies. Every time a falsehood is removed does that falsehood become the stumbling block of our adversary once it is replaced with truth? That being said , I have learned by the spirit that there is dark matter and light matter. When we come to earth we are made up of both. We must first be uprooted of dark matter and have it replaced with light matter? To be translated is to be fully uprooted of all darkness and have it replaced with robes of righteousness ? Just some thoughts.

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  11. Revenger

    Great thoughts! I had never put that together about Nephi’s stumbling blocks being places before his enemies, but I have been told that the enemies he was referring to were not Laman and Lemuel and company! They were literally the enemies of his soul so your thought falls right in line with that. Each portion of light we receive hedges up the way of the adversary from reaching us. Wow. Thank you all for this discussion. Who can glory too much in The Lord? Who can say too much of His infinite goodness?

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  12. No one can glory too much in the Lord. We are forever indebted to God!
    While pondering on stumbling blocks, this thought came to me. Truth can be a stumbling block for the sheep of God if the lies and darkness have not first been uprooted. God knows us perfectly and will aw us a portion of spirit and truth when the time is right. Let us all be uprooted of falsehoods so those portions of truth will not be for our stumbling to our fall! Let us be open to all things and trust only in the angels that speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. Let usfeast upon the words of Christ and be guided to the Holy Ghost who will show us all things in the spirit which will lead us to the manifestations of Christ in the flesh!

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  13. Just to clarify the answer to my question…In short what you are saying is there are different degrees of the Holy Ghost.
    One level might be Moroni’s promise to those who pray about the book of mormon?
    Another level would be baptize by fire?
    Another would be laying on of hands from someone with authority?

    Am I understanding?
    Thanks for helping me.
    Marc

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    • What I am talking about is when someone is baptized by these different degrees of spirit. The “spirit” is actually all around us and is the law by which all things are held together. We must continue to receive higher degrees or frequencies (it’s been called a lot of different things). People are influenced by the spirit all of the time, but in order for someone to actually be changed to a higher state of being they must be administered to by one who has the authority to do so. It doesn’t matter if it is an angel or God or even someone on mortality but they must have obtained a higher order themselves first.
      The fire is when someone is first immersed in a higher spirit. I believe at this point they are cleansed from sinspiritually. When they are completely immersed with the Holy Ghost (another baptism) this is called a “fulness of the Holy Ghost”. There are higher and higher orders. We could even break these down further into orders of angels etc. it is all frequencies and levels of sanctification, but to have our spirits cleansed without the same process being done to our bodies will not bring us to the presence of The Lord physically. I hope that is answering the question. I don’t believe laying on of hands by a man is in any way more valuable than laying on of hands by an angel. I would take either if they had the proper authority. If they do not then you end up with people receiving nothing at baptism and they must go to a higher power to be ministered to.

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  14. The Holy Ghost brings everything to remembrance because it is the only entity that can imprint all of the Father’s experience onto us. We then begin to receive of his fullness. Our eventual visit with the Father can only come through the Holy Ghost in revealing His experience in us. The reason we do not forget when we are taught by the Holy Ghost because of the imprinting power that exists in it’s entity. Every fiber of your being is now filled with knowledge. You begin to be in and through all things.

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    • Yes!

      To deny what the Holy Ghost has told you (or brought to your remembrance) would be denying your own spirit because the Truth is in you. We are “becoming one” with God.

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  15. @Tyson A point to consider: If it be the case that the glorification of the Father is so intense that he refrains from setting his foot on earth, which I have other scriptures stating this, then who was with Jehovah in the Sacred Grove. I think this may need to be found out. I am not convinced the Father appeared. He never appeared in the scriptures. They saw him in vision, but he never stepped foot on the earth to my knowledge. Just a thought. Please elucidate my error in thinking. I appreciate this.

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  16. Sfort
    Just a thought. It is very possible that joseph smith did not have the vision you are referring to in the flesh, but it was just what we call it. “A vision” of the spirit. He said something to the effect that “he came to” afterward.
    When joseph and oliver received the Holy Ghost after baptism they said that the more mysterious parts of scripture were opened and it seemed to be a new experience. I think that if joseph would have seen the savior in the flesh at that point he would have been struck like Paul or alma the younger because his elements had not been sanctified enough. However, I think your question still has merit.

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  17. Minorityofone Nice thought. We assume that Sec. 130…The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. In his teachings Joseph stated that the Savior is a personage of tabernacle and the Father is spirtual personage. Therefore most members acclaim Joseph’s vision is where he obtained this knowledge. The entire history of the restoration as we know it is in shambles. We are under delusion stated by Paul. That is why the Book of the Lamb combined with the Book of Mormon will stop all confusion concerning the finer points of His doctrine. I am anxiously looking forward. Thanks for your continued attention to these matters.

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  18. Textual Development of D&C 130:22

    https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=9222

    Additions are in brackets [ ] below.

    Notice the very first change, the addition of “the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the Son also,” very well could have been after JS’s death. What else has been changed or added and unwittingly attributed to JS? This is a mess. I’m with MinorityOfOne on this: He shall manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the Holy Ghost and by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. Don’t trust anyone but God.

    April 2, 1843
    Text: Joseph Smith
    Clerk: William Clayton
    “The Holy Ghost is a personage, and a person cannot have the personage of the H. G. in his heart.”

    Sometime between April 2, 1843, and February 4, 1846
    Clerk: Willard Richards
    “[the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the Son also,] but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, —and a person cannot have the personage of the H. G. in his heart.”

    July 27, 1854
    Text: George A. Smith
    Clerk: Thomas Bullock
    Approved: Brigham Young and Jedediah M. Grant
    “The Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as man’s; The Son also; but The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, [&] a person cannot have the personage of the H. G. in his heart.”

    July 31, 1854
    Clerk: Leo Hawkins
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; The Son also; but the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit;” (the rest of what he wrote on July 31 was erased on August 3)

    August 3, 1854
    Text: Brigham Young, Jedediah M. Grant, and George A. Smith
    Clerk: Leo Hawkins
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones but is a personage of Spirit; were it not so the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

    July 9, 1856 Deseret News Copy Editor
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also: but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit: were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

    November 13, 1858 Millennial Star Copy Editor
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also: but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

    1876 and 1879 editions of the Doctrine and Covenants
    Orson Pratt
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also: but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” (No modifications)

    1921 and later editions of the Doctrine and Covenants
    Heber J. Grant and a committee of six members of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles
    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

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  19. Joseph Smith Diary by Willard Richards
    2 April 1843 – Sunday

    dined at Sophronia’s soon as he we arrived.— Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder H. repli[e]d— they shall be thankfully recieved.—100 When he shall appear we shall see him as he is. we shall see that he is a man like ourselves.—101 And that same sociality. which exists amogt [amongst] us here. will exist amo[n]g us there only it will be coupled with eternl glory which glory we do not now enjoy.
    14 John 23.— the appearing of the father and of the Son in that verse is a personal. appearance.— to say that the father and the Son dwells in [p. [37]]

    whatever principle of inteligence we attain unto in this life. it will rise with us in the revalatin [revelation],109 and if a person gains more knowledge and intelignce. through his obedience & diligence. than another he will have so much the advantage in the world to come—
    There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicated and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedi[e]nce to the law upon which that blessing is predicated.
    again revertd to Elders Hyde mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans110 [p. [42]]
    the Son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit.— and a person cannot have the personage in his heart he may recive the gift of the holy Ghost. it may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.—

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