A Virgin Birth


gabriel-appears-to-maryVolumes have been written about the divinity of Jesus Christ and His miraculous birth. Many different opinions and interpretations have been given about how His birth took place. Opinions range from Mary becoming pregnant through “natural” causes of procreation, albeit with a Divine Being, to the conception of Christ by the Holy Ghost, to a complete misunderstanding of the word “virgin,” which can simply be translated as handmaiden, which could mean Jesus was born just like everyone else. The Immaculate Conception, or virgin birth that I want to write about is the birth of Jesus Christ in each of us.

Throughout the ages, people of various religions, movements, and groups have spoken of something divine in each of us. It has been called the divine spark, the God within, the Christ seed, and many other things, but it has been recognized by countless people from all over the world, from every tradition, since the beginning of time as we know it. Today new-age thinkers use affirmations like “I am that I am,” and speak about being Gods as if the affirmation alone raises their outlook and perspective, and gives them sublime understanding that people of the old school religions lack.

Some Eastern philosophies teach us to look within ourselves, to our own spirit for truth and direction, and that we alone are responsible for the growth and progression of our own soul. “We cannot ultimately look to others for assistance in the journey,” they teach. At the same time people of many Western faiths teach us to look exclusively outside of ourselves for grace and progression, pointing out that our own spirit has no power to save.

Somewhere in the midst of all of these teachings the truth can be found, perhaps ultimately not too far from any of the above teachings, as contradictory as some of them might seem at first. During the atonement Jesus became the Master Sower. He sowed a portion of His spirit in each of us, or in other words, gave a certain amount of talents to each of us, to abide in us until His coming. Through His beautiful plan He patiently nourishes the seeds, allowing time for the seeds within us to sprout and grow if we will give space for them within us. With that in mind, perhaps we can read Isaiah 53 with a slightly different perspective, and understand some of the beautiful imagery Isaiah tried to convey.

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

WE ALL PLAYED A PART

Mary-mother-of-JesusWhen we really begin to understand the reality that a portion of Jesus is within each of us, and has resided in us through it all, we begin to see that we have denied Him, hid our faces from Him, given Him grief, pain, sorrow, and punishment because of our own selfishness and love of sin. Yet through all of this He loves us, and He constantly and soothingly encourages us to accept the light, to turn from our wicked ways, and find the balm of Gilead that dwells in our midst.

The design of the tabernacle, and many temples, points us toward the center, or the Holy of Holies, where the Glory and Presence of the Lord can be found. This all is symbolic of finding His presence and glory, which dwells to one degree or another, in each of us. Then we can begin to nourish this glory as it grows. If we are patient and faithful, the mustard seed will become a great tree, even a tree springing up unto everlasting life.

Recently I read the Gospel of Thomas, and found it to be a spiritual feast. The text is said to have been written by the Thomas who some have come to know as “doubting Thomas.” The text begins with the bold declaration that “Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death.” Sounds like something worth investigating! While many of the verses can be found in the four gospels of the New Testament that we are most familiar with, I would like to share some of the verses that are unique.

WORDS FROM THE MASTER?

15)  Jesus said, “When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your Father.”

22)…..Jesus said to them, “When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the Kingdom].”

24)  His disciples said to Him, “Show us the place where You are, since it is necessary for us to seek it.”      He said to them, “Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is light within a man of light, and he (or “it”) lights up the whole world. If he (or “it”) does not shine, he (or “it”) is darkness.”

28)  Jesus said, “I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And My soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent.”

48)  Jesus said, “If two make peace with each other in this one house, they will say to the mountain, ‘Move Away,’ and it will move away.”

70)  Jesus said, “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”

I am hoping that there is no need to interpret the above verses, based on the content of this post. Find the Christ within yourself. There is not a lot of time left before the great harvest. We must be immersed, baptized, unified with the Spirit of Christ, and it is totally possible!

10)  Jesus said, “I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes.”

We are never alone. Jesus is always there, to be called upon, to be found. He is there. I know it. Most of the world seeks authority and direction from a voice without. There are countless voices beckoning, calling, vying for attention. It is a little reminiscent of “lo here, and lo there!” Where can the truth be found? Interestingly enough, the apostles asked Jesus something similar….

12)  The disciples said to Jesus, “We know that You will depart from us. Who is to be our leader?” Jesus said to them, “Wherever you are, you are to go to James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.”

Now what could this verse mean?! Who is James the righteous? In another version of the gospel of Thomas the verse reads, “…you are to look to James the great,..” This has led some to believe Jesus was talking about James the Great, son of Zebedee, or James the Just, son of Alphaeus, but like many of His sayings there is something deeper.

The meaning of the name James is “supplanter,” or “one who grasps the heel.” It is the same name as the Hebrew version of Jacob. We all have heard the story of Jacob and Esau. There is beautiful symbolism there that will make more sense with a little understanding. Most readers have already put it together that Jesus Christ is the Great Supplanter. The greatest virgin birth that has happened is the birth of His spirit in each of us. We must make way for the King, who dwells in our midst. Look to Him for authority and leadership. Look to Him as your Prophet, President, Apostle, Priest and King. Always look to James the Righteous!

36 Responses

  1. I grew up with many bible editions other than the LDS version in my home. We read the scriptures as a family. I remember times we also read from Apocryphal works. The gospel of Thomas was one of my favorites.

    My mother was fascinated with the Dead Sea Scrolls. At one time she was the Director of Christian Education at a local Presbyterian school so she created curriculum. We benefited from her experience.

    It’s a shame so few in the LDS Church know anything about apocryphal works such as the un-canonized Dead Sea Scrolls. There is much we can gain from them, as these passages show.

    Thanks for shedding a new light on the idea that the Savior sowed light within us. He will help us bring it forth if we ask Him. It can indeed be a “virgin birth” or rebirth if you will.

    I like the imagery you brought forth of the Holy of Holies that is deep within each soul. As we seek to be still that light grows and illuminates our lives with rich glory.

    Blessings upon you Nate. I enjoyed this post. Thanks for sharing.

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  2. Wow this blew me away. How beautiful. Thank you for these words. They give me hope. That somehow I can find my Savior.

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  3. This was an awesome read! Felt the Spirit of Truth whispering to my soul. Yes! Let Jesus take root in my heart! Love it.

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  4. Thank you guys and Tim I’m always grateful for the opportunity. God bless.

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  5. Interesting. Though i wouldn’t go as far to say Christ was born normal. Miraculous conception plays an important of the gospel.

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  6. Tyson

    For sure I wasn’t trying to say that He was born a normal birth, but I know some people believe that. I don’t believe that it happened the way james talmage and some others said it happened either (or at least strongly hinted at the way it happened.)

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  7. Nate, here’s a few things to think consider.

    1. Why would Luke go out of his way to give the genealogy of Joseph?
    2. A “virgin” can be translated as young maid.
    3. Man likes to make God an unreachable being that can’t really be like us. But how could his mortal life be considered a great condescension unless he took all the frailties of flesh? My point is people are afraid to think that he came into this life in the same manner as other men.
    4. Just as the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, the Holy Spirit also overshadowed Joseph. I believe it played out more like it is described in the The Gospel of the Holy Twelve that was translated form the original Aramaic.

    http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_section_1_lections_1_thru_10.htm#Lection 2

    1. AND in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God, unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Ioseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
    2. Now Ioseph was a just and rational Mind, and he was skilled in all manner of work in wood and in stone. And Mary was a tender and discerning Soul, and she wrought veils for the temple. And they were both pure before God; and of them both was Iesu-Maria who is called the Christ.
    3. And the angel came in unto her and said, Hail, Mary, thou that art highly favoured, for the Mother of God is with thee: blessed art thou among women and blessed be the fruit of thy womb.
    4. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God and, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb and bring forth a child, and He shall be great and shalt be called a Son of the Highest.
    5. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
    6. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her The Holy Spirit shall come upon Ioseph thy Spouse, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, O Mary, therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Christ, the Child of God, and his Name on earth shalt be called Iesu-Maria, for he shall save the people from their sins, whosoever shall repent and obey his Law.
    7. Therefore ye shall eat no flesh, nor drink strong drink, for the child shall be consecrated unto God from its mother’s womb, and neither flesh nor strong drink shall he take, nor shall razor touch his head.
    8. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God no thing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
    9. And in the same day the angel Gabriel appeared unto Ioseph in a dream and said unto him, Hail, Ioseph, thou that art highly favoured, for the Fatherhood of God is with thee. Blessed art thou among men and blessed be the fruit of thy loins.
    10. And as Ioseph thought upon these words he was troubled, and the angel of the Lord said unto him, Fear not, Ioseph, thou Son of David, for thou hast found favour with God, and behold thou shalt beget a child, and thou shalt call his name Iesu-Maria for he shall save his people from their sins.
    11. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was written in the prophets saying, Behold a Maiden shall conceive and be with child and shall bring forth a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God Within Us.
    12. Then Ioseph being raised from sleep did as the angel had bidden him, and went in unto Mary, his espoused bride, and she conceived in her womb the Holy One.

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    • Adam

      You are on to something there my friend. I would not call it a normal birth by any means. Again I don’t think it was like people of the LDS church typically teach.
      Joseph was much more than a step dad!:). After all one of the names of Jesus was Yeshua ben Josef. There was a lot going on with bloodlines and DNA, both spiritual and physical. Thank you for the comment I appreciate it and I think we might be on the same page as to what actually happened. I didn’t know that people would care to talk about this stuff and I know it is a sensitive topic and one where people have strongly held opinions.

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      • “Joseph was much more than a step dad!” Amen brother.

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  8. Minority of One … Some good thoughts to ponder. I have a friend who enlightened me on the name “Joseph”. When you look at the people named in scripture and their mission, this name is also a title denoting “guardian”, “preserver”. It is my belief that Joseph was Jesus’ and Mary’s guardian, but he was not Mary’s husband nor was he Jesus’ father. Jesus needed to be both Mortal and God – so that he could take upon him the Redemption of all creation in the universe. That can only happen when you have God’s own DNA/blood flowing and coursing through your veins. God the Father was a Savior at one point in His eternal progression and needed that DNA and memory passed onto His only Begotten Son. It is also my belief that Mary is God the Mother who incarnated to bear the Son of God … Heavenly Mother being the only one pure enough to do it. She had to stay a virgin throughout her sojourn upon this earth because of the nature of her mission and her son’s mission. She is God the Father’s handmaiden and only His in every sense of the word.

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    • Hannah speaks the truth as I have come to recognize it.

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  9. So you think Joseph was not Mary’s husband? Even her earthly husband? I have never heard such an idea. Any descendant of Adam has the blood of God running through him/her, so that is not a problem according to what you were saying, and although Mary was foreordained to be Jesus Mother on that go around, she has not been His Mother in each of the many worlds He was born into, even in this world where He incarnated more than once and overcame she wasn’t his mother many times. Intercessory offerings, as you know Hannah:) I am guessing, were not a new idea to Israel or to the world at large. The atonement is so much bigger than just what happened with Jesus, it is Endless and Eternal.
    If Enoch overcame, moses and Elijah overcame, and so many others, I don’t think it truly mattered because the Christ was going to manifest because of who He was, and his soul has obtained the victory countless times before the life He lived as Jesus. What if Jesus wasn’t born with a translated body like everyone thinks, and simply gained the power to change His body? Would that matter? What if He sinned and lived like normal kids and actually was “the carpenters son,” as the scriptures teach? Would it matter? In the same bible we have sayings that other people were perfect. Seth, Job and we have all of the 144,000 called virgins. Why don’t we take those things literally?
    The church has taught no one could have lived a “sinless” life accept Jesus, even if they had the body he did, and yet they contradict themselves when they teach everyone who is born during the millenium will grow up without sin. So apparently a lot of people under the right conditions could grow up without sin. Jesus was who he was, and it wouldn’t have mattered who his parents were, he still would have been who he was. The magnificent soul in Him was what mattered, not the body he was born into. A spirit of God can overcome the body and bring the body to a state of perfection and sinlessness.
    People rejected him in the places he grew up because they couldn’t accept that the kid they knew could actually become anybody worthwhile. So many people today who claim to revere him would have recognized nothing in him when he came as Jesus.

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  10. So the question I guess is if you are consistent with your interpretation of scriptures? Do the 144000 actually have to be virgins in the literal sense?

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  11. Minority can you explain a little more of Jesus being born a translated being? I have never heard that before. Have you ever heard of Ian Clayton or Graham Cook? They are non-LDS who go to and from heaven all the time … amazing experiences. They talk about the importance of changing our DNA to become like God’s DNA … To be the Savior of the Universe, he had to carry the DNA of God the Father, literally … directly … not through thousands of generations of DNA for it becomes corrupted. I have read many books from the New Age and Eastern Philosophy. But have you heard of a man named Ralph who had a NDE and saw what was going on at the time that Jesus was born? It is rather remarkable. He was shown that at the time Jesus was born, there were other babies born (India and other countries) with the same name of Jesus. That Satan orchestrated the birth of these boys to be counterfeits of the real Jesus. The eastern philosophies teach that Jesus was just another “boy” and traveled to many different countries (especially India to learn from the Masters), is true, but it was not the Jesus, Savior of the world. There were actually other boys named Jesus who were taught and trained by mere mortals. God the Son was not trained by mortals, but was taught and tutored by God the Father and angels. Ralph man was shown many other things, one being that Jesus did not die on a cross, but a tree. Anyway, though there is truth in the eastern philosophies, I have had to step back from exploring them. Jesus performed an eternal and universal atonement – it could not be done by a mere mortal … he connected the mortal and the heavenly realms because he was both a mortal and heavenly (God). I don’t know if I am explaining myself well enough, but hopefully you get the drift. I’m still interested about this concept of “being born translated” as I have always thought that was something we had to attain while in mortality … The fact that Jesus was rejected is because he could not show his “power” until his mission began. There are many books from authors who claim to be witnesses of his life who all say the same thing … he did miracles from the time he was a young boy, but it was very private and not public.

    I admit I cannot change my belief until the God of the Universe shows me something different.

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    • Being born translated is referring to this idea that Jesus was born half celestial, half telestial, which would make him terrestrial in body. This would equal a translated being according to joseph smith and others who teach that when people are translated they become terrestrial. I have read all sorts of NDEs and if I trusted most of them that are not slanted by religious belief, it would point towards Jesus being no different than any other enlightened being. People see Muhammed, Buddha, all sorts of other beings, giant butterflies, orbs, ascended masters, aliens, and so many other things in NDEs, and I am not exaggerating I have read all of those things from NDEs. If anything can be concluded from NDEs it is that the power of belief leads us to experience things according to our belief.
      Jesus was not a mere mortal, He was a manifestation of God in physical form. But then each person is to one degree or another. Why would it matter if Jesus was born like anyone else, then became the Christ through a process that He taught we could all follow, and then He performed the Eternal sacrifice? Was Enoch a mere mortal after his body was changed?
      What if Jesus is such an ascended being that He could be born on any planet anywhere, in whatever body was given Him, and He would overcome every time because of His stature, would He be any less of a God if that was the case? I would feel more to worship a being who actually came to suffer all temptations, in a tabernacle that I can relate to, and overcame, then a being who came down with a half-God body who didn’t have to struggle with the normal weaknesses of the flesh, and did not have to struggle to overcome.

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  12. Exactly where does it indicate that Yeshua/Jesus “did not have to struggle to overcome.” ? Being a literal son of the Father allowed him to suffer more, not less. He laid down His life. It was not taken from Him. Your ideas seem bizarre, if one tries to find a foundation for them in scripture, and very “new age”.

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    • I know they are DIFFERENT from what the church teaches. I think a virgin birth would be considered more “bizarre” to most people. I wasn’t actually the first to comment on it as you can see in this thread. Just look to the meaning of the word “virgin” in Hebrew.
      The funny thing is that in the LDS church, james talmage and brigham young and others alluded to Mary not being a virgin either. The way they portray it is truly bizarre. Do readers mean to tell me they believe that God the Father, with a physical body came down and procreated with Mary?
      At any rate I know what Jesus did for me. I know the atonement is real, I know His sacrifice was for me, and I know that He was the Son of God. How his mortal mother got pregnant is not really a crucial matter to me.
      We see plainly in scripture that Jesus had to grow grace for grace like all of us. We see that at His baptism the Spirit of The Lord descended upon Him, and He gained something more at that moment. This shows that He grew from glory to glory and didn’t pop out perfect, or in a terrestrial state, even though the bloodlines of Joseph and Mary are extremely important and I agree He had a physical body that was filled with “royal blood.”

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  13. Diane

    I agree the state of Jesus’ body during the atonement allowed Him to suffer more DURING the atonement, but if what the LDS teaches is true. The first 33 years of His life (until the atonement started) He would have never had to worry about sickness, hunger, fatigue, and actually temptation because of what we know about people who have entered the “terrestrial” sphere. Once someone has such a body, the devil has no hold on them whatsoever, as will be the case in the millenium.
    If Jesus grew from grace to grace (which we all can agree upon) doesn’t that mean He progressed from the time He was born to the time He died? More light, always brings more righteousness. More grace always brings more righteousness. So if Jesus was in a state where there could possibly be more righteousness, that definitely entails that he lacked righteousness, and needed more to fulfill his mission. If he lacked righteousness, this means he was in a state of imperfection, and needed to progress to a higher point to even be able to perform the atonement. Please tell me where the logic is flawed here.

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  14. The logic is flawed here. Because Christ was of The Father, because he grew from grace to grace in his obedience and in gaining light and knowledge doesn’t mean He never stubbed his toe, never had to deal with injustices, pain, or any of the other frustrations and perils of mortal life. Scriptures describe Him a “man of sorrows” before His atoning gifts to us. To say that someone “lacks righteousness” because they endure some of this world’s suffering, is to fall into the trap of both judging harshly those who do suffer as being “unenlightened” and of judging those who are blessed materially as being kissed by God’s hand for their personal righteousness; neither which may be true. It doesn’t seem like you have a perspective consistent with what the scriptures teach.

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    • Diane

      You just repeated what I wrote in part of what you said,
      He grew from grace to grace in his OBEDIENCE, and in gaining LIGHT and KNOWLEDGE. Ok so does that not mean he lacked all three of the above in His life?
      If someone is not perfectly obedient they need to repent, is that consistent with your understanding? If someone is lacking light then they have not fulfilled the requirements to receive the greater light, and if someone lacks knowledge, they lack power, righteousness etc.
      This is why joseph smith taught that we are saved by knowledge, so I find your comment contradictory.

      I still would like to know why people in the LDS church say Mary was a virgin, and yet teach that she wasn’t because of what happened between her and the Father. It is actually absurd. But we can agree to disagree and we both love Jesus and seek to follow God. Peace

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  15. Minority what I was taught by the spirit is that grace to grace means his progression thru eternal lives before coming to this earth as a perfect being. We will have to agree to disagree. The problem I see with eastern philosophies is that they put us on even ground with jesus. I cannot accept that because I have never atoned for a universe. To even hint that we are glorified like he is, sows the seeds of pride. I’ve read and associated with people who have the same line of thinking as you. What I have observed us that over time they begin worshipping and praying to their I am presence and begin diminishing the role if jesus. I would rather stay stuck in my Christian beliefs and stick to scriptures than open portals and be deceived. I was taught by the spirit re mary bring mother in heaven. No person told me …. I was taught she remained a consecrated woman to God the father through a vow. Joseph protected her and jesus and her vow to God. Joseph was not God the father incarnated. His mission was to protect the love of God, Mary, and their son, jesus. Joseph had children from an earlier marriage. Both mother and son were consecrated to the father. if you think any of us are able to overcome this carnal state and atone for a universe because of growing from grace to grace in this life then I believe whatever you have seen or read has adulterated the truth. I pray that we all are able to have the veil lifted do we all see the eternal truth, not pieces of truth. I don’t understand why so many with gifts and visions are not all seeing the same and being taught the same.

    God bless you in your journey. I certainly need blessed so I am not deceived or lead others on the oath if untruth.

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    • Hannah,

      We should not put ourselves on the same level as Jesus. Jesus is The Way and we need to become like him. He does suffer the pains and sufferings of the world. He is still going through the Atonement. Once he became fully aware of the world sufferings. he was at one with the world and felt and went through everyone’s pain but the way to relieve Christ of the eternal suffering is to become enlightened like he was. We can become translated beings like Elijah and Moses. Jesus will always be above because he was the first and will be the first once again to brings the truth in all of its glory once again.

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    • Hannah,

      One last thing. No one wants to be deceived so we must not ever allow fear, anger or what ifs the run our lives. Trust in a God that loves and understands. Fear of upsetting God is not real. God loves all of us perfectly and does not get angry with HIS children. Those that base any truth out of these things are damned where they are until the darkness of fearis overcome. Seems like we need the savior now more than ever. We do need the veil of darkness to be uncovered. We need to see the truth and experience the truth with light and love. Not fear, anger or pride.

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  16. Diane, Nate,

    Jesus had the power to turn water into wine. He had power to walk on water. He had power that was from the Father. Did Peter at one point have the faith to walk on water when he had his eyes on the Way? He was surely not born perfect. May we agree? If I were to sit and listen to the teachings of Jesus I would become much more enlightened. I would begin to have the faith to know that we can become like the enlightened one Jesus. He taught that no man will reach the Father but through him. Yes we all must meet full enlightenment as Jesus did. He was the only one during his time to overcome the world and be lifted from the earth, reaching the Father. Just like the meaning behind the Lotus flower. He was the only begotten because he was the first to reach the resounding center, then becoming the chosen one to teach the people the Way. He was and is the Way, The first and the last, The Son of God. He once was the Son of Man and so are we all. Mary was Jesus ‘ wife and we know that she was not born perfect. At least the “scriptures” that most will put before the gifts of the spirit say that she had 7 devils that were cast out of her. I will testify that I know that Jesus and Mary were married. Mary became fully enlightened and perfected as Jesus was. I know that they are soul mate. I know that the second coming of the Lord is going to be similar but much much more powerful Jesus will come in his glory ( Mary ) having reached full balance of the male and female side. Their will be miracles all of the time that people will see from the two witnesses of the Father and the Mother, teaching things that are somewhat similar to these. We must all be open to new ideas and let not fear run our lives. Have trust in God. I pray that someone will be fully brought to the terrestrial or celestial state of enlightenment and teach, heal and awaken with the power like Jesus did. I believe that there individuals that were most definetly not born perfect it that will reach that level of truth and light that Jesus had. We are just waiting for someone or someone’s to overcome the world and experience what the brother of Jared experienced. We are waiting for the man like unto moses. We are waiting for the complete balance of male and female. We are waiting for them to show us the Way. It will happen in the temple of the Lord in Zion for most. . Most people will learn and see the Way in a physical place and will reach the level of enlightenment that Jesus had while on the earth. The earth is in need of healing and soon enough of the world will awaken fully in order to heal the earth.Many things are happening very quickly. God bless and may we all realize our true potential in this life or the next.

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  17. Hannah,

    I am often blown away how people seem to think they know what others believe when they dont. I never claimed to “put even ground with Jesus,” or ever hinted that we “are glorified like he is,” I have never even hinted at the idea of praying to our “I am presence,” Then you mentioned “opening portals” That was just throwing a lot of things that have bugged you about other people and then projecting them at me.
    I am curious as to your statement that Jesus “atoned for a universe.” I have heard that theory, I have heard that he only atoned for the people of the family of Adam on this earth. I have heard he only atoned for Israel, I have heard that his atonement was only a metaphor, I mean the theories really have no end.
    The important thing is that I know he atoned for me. I do not equate every human to Jesus, but I also do not think Jesus would have us look at him as some distant God, who is almost like another species because his glory is so much greater than the rest of us.
    We are made of the same stuff that he was/is made of. He told John that John would drink the same cup that he drank, and be baptized with the same baptism. What did this mean?

    Phillipians 2

    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

    So is it wrong to have this mind in us?

    Gospel of Thomas

    14 [13]. Jesus says to his disciples: “Compare me, and tell me whom I am like.” Simon Peter says to him: “Thou art like a just angel!” Matthew says to him: “Thou art like a wise man and a philosopher!” Thomas says to him: “Master, my tongue cannot find words to say whom thou art like.” Jesus says: “I am no longer thy master; for thou hast drunk, thou art inebriated from the bubbling spring which is mine and which I sent forth.” Then he took him aside; he said three words to him. And when Thomas came back to his companions, they asked him: “What did Jesus say to thee?” And Thomas answered them: “If I tell you one of the words he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them at me, and fire will come out of the stones and consume you!”

    Matthew 12

    46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

    47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

    48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

    49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

    50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    I could go on but we see that often those who claim to follow “scriptures” are often setting them aside. What manner of men ought we to be, even as Jesus was, if it is true, then it has to be possible, and not in some far away distant land, but here in this life.

    I appreciate your testimony, and if you have received a witness from God, I encourage you to follow it, and allow me the same privilege. That is all we can really do in such situations. Do we each sincerely seek the truth? Do we each seek light and love above all else? If so we will meet up at the same place eventually.

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  18. Do you seek truth? Read Alma 7:11. As I pointed out, your ideas are not based on scriptures.

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    • Alma 7:11 is one of my favorite verses. I must not be communicating effectively. I know Jesus took upon Him our pains and afflictions, sorrows etc. I know it. I have written why this is so extensively in other posts. I don’t understand what I have said that would lead someone to believe that I don’t agree with that. My point is this, it DOES NOT MATTER what happened before Jesus began His ministry. We can all agree Jesus sinned at some point during His existence. We can all agree He is the same type of being as the rest of us, only he has been glorified. Why the heck does it matter if He was born from a virgin or not? The spirit and soul of Jesus are what matters, not the body He happened to be born with. The body is a vessel, and as someone grows in glory and grace, the body becomes more and more sanctified. I don’t care if He entered the world with the most decrepit, weak body anyone has ever had. IT DOESNT MATTER. The glory of Jesus was the Truth, and the Light, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the body He was in. Jesus has been the owner of many many more tabernacles than the one He was in during His ministry in Jerusalem. He has been doing this for a very long time, on many planets, and his mother has not always been Mary. It is so simple and clear I don’t understand how my words can be twisted and misunderstood.

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      • Minority, I absolutely agree Jesus has had thousands, if not more, bodies or tabernacles of clay and lived on other planets and his grace for grace has everything to do with his eternal progression. But if all Jesus needed was his truth and light and we don’t need to concentrate on what kind of a body he was born with, then why did he need to descend at all and take upon him a body? Why could he not perform the atonement as a being of truth and light, and glory? I guess the disconnect with me is that you seem to discount “virgin” birth … Though I believe scriptures have been adulterated, I do not believe “virgin” birth was tampered with. The birth of Jesus had to be different because of his MISSION of redemption. Sometimes when we are shown things in spirit, vision, dreams, etc. our perspective colors what God is communicating. I think we are all guilty of receiving revelation and misinterpreting it … and I know that I am guilty of it as well as others. My opinion and belief holds no weight with anyone. Because Jesus is my Savior in word and deed, then something had to be different about Him in the life as Savior, than anyone else. Yes, he grew from grace to grace, from one eternal life to another eternal life, from one mortality to another. You argued that what kind of body he had as a result of a virgin birth (though I assume you don’t believe in a virgin birth) doesn’t matter. I’m saying it definitely matters for his DNA was directly connected to God the father … his DNA was poured out, his soul was poured out in order to redeem us, to be part of us. No mortal could do the act of atonement. He imparted not only his light and truth and glory, but he imparted the blood and the DNA of His Father and his mother to us. We are all family. I definitely don’t believe Mother in Heaven was with him on each earth. But he did not perform the atonement on each earth … it was this fallen and darkened earth that he came to perform the eternal ordinance of atonement. He did what he saw his Father do in another world, for our Father in Heaven was once a Savior also. But then you probably know that. Of course Mother in Heaven was not on each earth with him, but it was this earth, that he redeemed creation and therefore, it was Mother and Father in Heaven who were directly involved in the creative process of birthing the Son of God.

        This is why I rebuke and refute eastern philosophies that Jesus was an Ascended Master taught by Masters in India … The eastern philosophies teach that Jesus learned the art of meditation so well that he really didn’t die on the cross … he survived and then went to another country to live out his life. To me this is blasphemy for it diminishes the Godhead and especially the Son’s miraculous event of atonement and resurrection. I cannot trust your experiences for they are yours not mine. I trust the spirit as it reveals and witnesses to me of certain things and I’m given second witnesses. I realize that the Adversary also orchestrates visions, dreams, visitations, and even second witnesses. If he can come as a being of light then you better believe he can imitate things very well. So what do we use to measure truth with? Is it totally our own spiritual experiences (dreams, visions, etc), is it knowledge, is it scriptures, or maybe a combination of all? For I believe if we only concentrate on one it opens ourselves up for deception.

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        • Thank you for explaining your position that helps me understand and you answered my question why it matters in your mind.

          First off, I agree that it mattered what position the body of Jesus was in during the atonement. The difference in our opinion seems to be when His body became the way it did for Him to be able to do that.

          I am of the understanding that a body can be changed by the spirit that inhabits it. I believe that the DNA within my own body can be changed, not because of the physical DNA of a Heavenly Parent, but because a portion of the spirit of Jesus has been placed within this body, and if it is fully accepted my body it will change to a translated state.
          It happened in fallen bodies with many people before Jesus ever came to this earth, because they accepted the portion of Christ that had been given to them.
          So if my body can be changed by the Spirit of Christ, than why couldn’t Jesus’ body have been changed to conform to the Spirit that was in Him, which of course was His own spirit? My testimony is that Jesus has performed more than one atonement, and it is a continual cycle. He is glorified by His Father, then He glorifies those below Him in the chain, and then it happens again, and again, and again.
          As to your question why Jesus needed a body to perform the atonement, funny enough the answer is in the same chapter that was referenced earlier.
          Look in alma 7:12-13.
          The light could have definitely split without Jesus coming to a tabernacle, but in order for Jesus to have gained a perfect understanding, He needed to experience all things in a tabernacle so He had experiential knowledge of all of our suffering etc. this filled His bowels with compassion and made Him the perfect advocate, judge etc.

          I disagree 100 percent that Jesus is the only being in the universe who has performed an atonement, and it is not just His Father above Him that performed one either. So it seems we understand each other and where we are coming from now, which is good, and I respect your position. God bless.

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  19. And since I am in the mood and you brought me to ponder this, I will offer up what I believe is a mystery.
    Any woman on this earth, who accepts, and nourishes the portion if Christ in them until He is manifest in them, can be told by the Spirit that they are Mary (Mary is a title) and the Mother of Christ. The same goes for all of these people who have been lead to believe they are Jesus reborn, Mary Magdalene reborn, the Father of Jesus incarnate etc.
    As we ascend and receive titles we also receive tests with what the spirit will tell us. Most people who are told something to the effect that the Spirit of Jesus or Mary is in them, lose themselves to their ego, and have to go through a great period of looking like an idiot to others before they seek the meaning of these things, and their progression is hindered. We can be told by the Spirit that anyone we encounter is Jesus, because His spirit was given to them. It happens all the time. People pass a bum on the street, then later that night the spirit whispers that it was Jesus, and they missed an opportunity.
    There are many spiritual Mothers of Jesus, because figuratively he has been reborn in them. This was the meaning of Christs words that all who will follow the will of the Father will become his mothers, sisters etc. Many great people get lost in their ego, and even lead others astray, not because they are deceived by false revelation, but because they do not seek out the meaning of the revelation they received. This has brought about many false Christs, Mary Magdalenes, etc etc and we must be careful to never seek God without, but to seek God within before all else.

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  20. Minority … I have to laugh … we are very close on many things … and I believe the sacrament when we approach it with the desire to be changed, facilitates our DNA (at least spiritual) to change. But don’t you see that Jesus imparts his DNA, and the same thing had to happen with him … the DNA of the father had to be imparted to Jesus. Though we can go round and about discussing our different perspectives, I don’t think either one of us will change what we have either been taught, or shown, at least to this point. So much will be straightened out and revealed and restored when the Master returns … we will then have the truth. But until then, I think we just have to allow the other to believe.

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  21. Great comment and great points. It is beautiful to see that two peoples understanding can be so close when they are willing to have a civil discussion. I seriously think the only difference is that I believe it is the spirit that changes the DNA, and it sounds like you believe there must be a physical transfer of DNA.
    I am sure you have heard of the study of how a frequency, or a word has been found to change the DNA. That would imply to my mind that new DNA does not have to be implanted, but the existing DNA can be changed by Spirit, or light, or whatever you want to call it.

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  22. Whoever have the last thumbs down on the comment where I shared about people being told by the spirit that they are Jesus reborn, or the mother of Jesus (Mary) reborn etc.

    I know it sounds ridiculous but there are SO MANY people living right now who have had a spiritual experience that has lead them to believe they are Jesus, or Buddha, or Mary Magdalene or whoever reborn. I am talking people that a lot of mormons look up to that people would be blown away if they learned who these people thought they were.

    I used to be unaware of it but I hear more and more stories of people who are totally convinced they are Jesus etc. because of things the spirit told them. So I have sought out the meaning, and given an answer that leaves me with the understanding of how it happens. These individuals actually gain followers by telling them to pray about who they are etc and others have real spiritual experiences to lead them to believe in these people. It sounds so bizarre but it really happens, and I mean it is happening now to many different people. The same thing has lead women to believe they are pregnant with Jesus, and all sorts of other strange things.

    It is like mother Theresa once asked a priest if he wanted to see Jesus, he replied that of course he would. So mother Theresa took the priest outside, lead him behind a dumpster and pointed to a homeless man and told the priest solemnly, “there is Jesus Christ.” This is why the poor way faring man of grief resonates with people so much. It is true and we can learn to see Jesus in everyone, because his spirit is literally in everyone.

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  23. I would ignore those thumbs up and thumbs down votes. I’ve been thinking of removing it altogether. I’ve seen people hit thumbs down on scripture quotes. Thanks for sharing your posts and continuing to add to the dialog here, Nate. Bless you.

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  24. To all Christ believers,

    Hello my name is Deborah and I am sharing my testimony called, “Christ testimony of the churches around the world”. Just Google name of video.

    Many believers both Christians and Catholics in churches around the world do not realize original scriptures of prophecy from the Living Torah and from the testimonies of Jesus, the Christ were tampered by certain men in Rome who made the Holy Bible and established the Roman Catholic Church during the end of the First Century AD.

    It was just before that time Disciple Paul, John, and Peter spoke and wrote to believers about these certain men.

    Here is what disciple Paul spoke and wrote:

    Acts 20:28-31,Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which Jesus, the Christ has made you overseers, to feed his sheep, which he has purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock and also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    Romans 1:23,25 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever Amen.

    Galatians 1:6-7, I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ to another word: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the word of God.

    2 Cor 4:2, But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

    Here is what disciple John spoke and wrote:

    1John 2:18-19, Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that anti christ shall come, even now are there many anti christs; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    2John 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti christ.

    Here is what Disciple Peter spoke and wrote:

    1Peter 2:to you therefore which believe he is precious: but to them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: where to also they were appointed.

    The one true living God of heaven and earth showed me two identical Jesus, the Christ.

    This duplicate identity comes from men tampering with original scriptures of prophecy from the living Torah and from the testimonies of Jesus, the Christ.

    Here is one of many original scriptures of prophecy from the Living Torah

    Isaiah 9:5-6, For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, “the prince of peace”. To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David’s throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.

    Here is the scripture of prophecy after it was tampered:

    Isaiah 9:6-7, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

    These changes of original scriptures of prophecy happen at the end of the first century AD during Roman Empire time by certain men in Rome who establish the Roman Catholic Church.

    After the departure of disciple Paul and the other disciples these men in Rome tampered with original scriptures of prophecy from the Living Torah and from the testimonies of Jesus, the Christ by adding and taking away words of prophecy then transferred them into a book which they called the Holy Bible. They called the scriptures of the Living Torah the old testament and the scriptures of the testimonies of Jesus, the Christ the new testament. This book called the Holy Bible contains a mixture of original and tampered scriptures. This book was sent to England and translated to English then sent to North America and then from there sent to the Nations.

    So what changes to did these men do to the original scriptures of God’s word’s of prophecy?

    The change the testimony of Mary’s conception. The truth is Joseph and Mary were married and intimate, but Mary was not able to conceive like her cousin Elizabeth.

    God sent angel to Joseph and Mary they would finally have a baby! It takes a man and woman to be intimate and God opens the womb for conception.

    Testimonies in the bible of women that were barren but God open their womb to conceive! Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel, Manoah’s wife, Hannah, Elizabeth and Mary!

    Luke 1:34-38, Then said Mary to the angel, How shall this be, seeing that I am without child? And the angel Gabriel answered and said to her, The Spirit of God shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy child which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God and, behold, your cousin Elisabeth, she has also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word and the angel departed from her.

    As it is written in 1 John 4:2-3, Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti christ, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

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  25. As it is written in 1 John 4:2-3, Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti christ, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    Galatians 4:4, But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a man and a woman, made under the law,

    Romans 1:3, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    2 Timothy 2:8, Remember that Jesus, the Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my testimony. Disciple Paul is telling the people his testimony Acts chapter 9;Acts 22:1-15and Acts 26:22-23>Acts 22:18:8

    Romans 8:3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Romans 9:4-5, Who are Israelites; to whom pertains the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Hebrews 2:9, But we see Jesus, the Christ, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    Hebrews 2:14, Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    Hebrews 2:16, For truly he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    Hebrews 5:7, Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to God that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared God;
    1Peter 4:1-2, Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the will of men, but to the will of God ( Luke 16:13, No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and man.)

    The man Jesus, the Christ 100% flesh and blood was chosen and anointed by God witness by John the prophet of the Highest declaring this man is the son of God because the spirit of God rested upon him.

    John 1:32-33, And John the Prophet bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him and I knew him not: but he that sent me to immerse with water, the same said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which immerses with the spirit of God and I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    1John 2:22Who is a liar but he that denies that the man Jesus is the Christ? He is anti christ, that denies the Father and the Son.
    John 3:34, For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him.

    Matthew 5:17,Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill the law and the prophets.
    Galatians 5:22-23But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Behold My servant, I will support him, My chosen one, whom My soul desires; I have placed My spirit upon him, he shall promulgate justice to the nations> Matthew 12:17-18

    Isaiah 61:1
    The spirit of the Lord God was upon me, since the Lord anointed me to bring tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to declare freedom for the captives, and for the prisoners to free from captivity> Luke 4:21

    So what other scriptures were tampered beside Torah Isaiah 9:5-6 and the testimony of Joseph and Mary?

    They added “god” in 1Tim 3:16 when it should read “Christ, The word of God”

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: “Christ, the Word of God” was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit of G-d, seen of angels, proclaim to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory John 1:14; 1John 1:1; 1John 4:2. John 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Here are scriptures confirming Christ, the word of God.
    Christ manifested in the flesh: John 1:6,30, 33-34;Heb 1:1-2; Heb 2:14,16; Heb 5:7-8
    Christ justified by the Spirit of G-d: John 5:32, 36-37; John 14:10; Acts 2:22; Acts 10:38; Isaiah 53:10-11; Roms 3:25-26; 8:30,33; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebs 10:12; 1 Tim 2:5-6
    Seen of Angels: Luke 2:15, 17-18
    Proclaim to the gentiles: Matt 4:13-16; Matt 24:14; Acts 28:28
    Believed on in the world: Matt 24:14
    Received up into glory: John 16:28; Acts 1:9-11
    Revelation 19:13, And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    They added the word “cross”
    Philippians 2:8, And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of his body.
    Hebrews 12:2, Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the sufferings of his body, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
    Colossians 1:20, And having made peace through the blood of his body, by him to reconcile all things to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
    Colossians 2:14,Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his body, his flesh;
    Gal 6:14, But God forbid that I should glory, save in the body of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is dead to me, and I to the world.
    John 19:19, And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the tree (pole). And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.
    Matthew 27:42,He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the tree(pole), and we will believe him.
    They change son of God to son of man!
    Matt 24:30,And then shall appear the sign of the Son of God in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of God coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Also in Matt 24: verse 37,39,and 44.
    Matt 26:63-65,But Christ held his peace, And the high priest answered and said to him, I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you be the Christ, the Son of God. Christ said to him, You have said: nevertheless I say to you, Hereafter shall you see the “Son of God” sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven Rev 1:7. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He has spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now you have heard his blasphemy Matt 27:43; John 19:7.
    Acts 7:56, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of God standing on the right hand of God.
    Testimonies of Christ declared “Son of God” John 1:18;Luke 1:32;Matt 16:16;Acts 9:20, John 1:34,45,49;1 John 5:13.

    1John 4:15, Who so ever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God.1 John 5:5,Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Christ is the Son of God.

    They added John the “Baptist” who is called, “John, The Prophet of the Highest” Luke 1:76;Luke 20:6; Matt 21:26.
    They added “Church” in the scriptures
    Matt 16:18, And I say also to you, That you are disciple Peter, and upon this rock(1Peter2:7; 1 Cor 10:4; Dan 2:45)
    I will build my Kingdom 1Peter2:4-5; Eph 2:20-22; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it Eph 6:12. The Kingdom of God John 18:36;2 Sam 7:12-13;Hebrews 8:1-2;Mark 14:58.

    Torah verses KJV

    Torah Psalms 82:6, I said, “You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High.” Genesis 3:5, For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels, knowing good and evil.”

    KJV Psalms 82:6, I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Genesis 3:5, For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Torah Daniel 3:24-25, Then King Nebuchadnezzar was bewildered and stood up in haste. He shouted and said to his leaders, “Did I not cast three men into the fiery furnace, bound?” They answered and said to the king, “The king is true.”He called out and said, “Behold, I see four free men walking in the midst of the fire, and there is no wound upon them, and the form of the fourth one is like [that of] an angel.”
    KJV Daniel 3:24-25,Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spoke, and said unto his counselors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the “Son of God”

    Heb1:5 ,For to which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    So in John 10:33-36, The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, makes yourself equal to God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are angels? If he called them angels, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, you blasphemy; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    What does God say about adding and taking away the word?
    Revelation 22:18,For I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book:

    which is also why God says in Revelation 18:4,And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues

    Who is Revelation 17:5?
    And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The MOTHER Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
    It is the Roman Catholic “Mother” Church and ALL four square worship buildings spread out on the earth who teach and celebrate KJV Isaiah 9:6 and the virgin conception which is 1 John 4:3, Revelation 17:8 and Matthew 24:15!

    This image spoke of in book of Revelation is the devil appearing as Christ to people in worship buildings known as “Churches” spread out on the earth.
    Revelation 18:22-23, And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in you; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in you; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in you; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in you; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in you (increased ministers increased divorces): for your ministers were the great men of the earth; for by your sorceries were all nations deceived.

    God calling his people to truth and come out of all worship buildings and their teachings. God’s people need to get into prayer immediately for them and their household. The coming of God’s spirit on all flesh is coming quickly foretold in Acts 2:1-3 and 16-21 and Joel 2:28-29 which is Living Torah Joel 3:1-2!!!! Then immediately Great Tribulation. There is no rapture before or during Great Tribulation.
    The spiritual plagues of Revelation 9 are coming into these churches and upon whoever is following the image from these worship buildings that declare Isaiah 9:6kjv and the virgin conception which comes from the Roman Catholic Church! this message not a joke.

    God is calling his people to truth and escape the judgment for these churches around the world!!!!!

    1 Peter 4:17-18,For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the word of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    Christ said there are two identical gates to enter but only one leads to truth and eternal life!

    Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.

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