The Colorado Remnant Family Reunion


albert-einstein-solving-problems“If I had one hour to solve a problem, and my life depended on the answer, I would spend 55 minutes formulating questions, and 5 minutes solving the problem” – Albert Einstein

I’ve needed to ask myself a few good questions lately:  

  1. With the limited time and financial resources available to me, what valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to the first remnant retreat/gathering, when the organizer told me that Denver Snuffer was specifically not invited to attend because he would be a “distraction”?
  2. What kind of gathering would Denver Snuffer be invited to?
  3. What kind of gathering would he attend?
  4. How do I get an invitation to that one?
  5. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering conceived of and organized by a man who told me that he was personally rebuked by Denver Snuffer? Why would Denver Snuffer rebuke anybody?
  6. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering which the second witness at Denver Snuffer’s Phoenix talk is not planning to attend?
  7. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where three of the six original speakers (myself included) backed out after praying to know whether or not to attend/speak?
  8. Who are the three substitute speakers?
  9. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering and listening to a featured speaker who has an active internet blog where they advertise and promote the gathering at which they themselves are scheduled to be a featured speaker?
  10. Is it possible that they may increase in status among their own blog followers, and attract even more followers as a result of speaking at the Remnant Reunion?
  11. If so, does this fit any definitions of priestcraft?
  12. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where, as the organizer’s wife told me, women and their daughters may decorate themselves in blue and white clothing (similar to depictions of the Virgin Mary) and wear head jewels as they dance together on the mesa?
  13. asenethWhat valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where women and their daughters may perform rituals using honeycombs that they bless in a “sacred ordinance” (which a Utah woman says she has received from the Lord for this purpose, based on Asenath, who used the technique to change her vibrational energy in order to convince Joseph to marry her)?
  14. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where decorated women and their daughters may again exclude men from being present while they dance in the moonlight on the Mesa?
  15. What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where women and their daughters may anticipate that an entity they call Heavenly Mother will again be present and that there will again be physical manifestations of her presence in the clouds surrounding the moon, as there have been in the past when women gathered with the wife of the event organizer (to perform their Asenath honeycomb dance) on the Mesa?
  16. What is the difference between today’s LDS remnant women dressing up and dancing in the moonlight on a mesa, trying to change their vibrational energy, excluding their men folk, focusing on a female Goddess – and the ancient Israelite women doing the same thing?
  17. Is there any difference?
  18. How might God view such a gathering?
  19. How has God viewed such gatherings in the past?
  20. If some people say they have prayed and God has told them to go to this gathering, but others who have prayed about it say that they have been specifically warned by God not to go, what am I to make of this?
  21. Pure-waterIf some people say they have prayed and God has told them to go to this gathering, but the person they have publicly said that they pray to is an entity they call Heavenly Mother, what am I to make of this?
  22. If some people say they are just going to this gathering for social reasons, do not plan to pray about it or feel the need to, and say publicly that God is perfectly capable of stopping them from going if that is His will, what am I to make of this?
  23. Will the spirit, approval and protection of God be over this gathering? If so, how do I personally reconcile all of the above questions?
  24. If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the organizer, who says publicly that the reunion gathering is directly commissioned and led by Jesus Christ, who has communicated in person with him about the details of the event on numerous occasions?
  25. If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the speakers?
  26. If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the participants?
  27. If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, how might that affect all the innocent, impressionable children attending the event with their parents?
  28. How can I find out how God views this particular gathering?
  29. Why would I want to do so?
  30. Does Denver Snuffer’s April 10, 2015 blog post: “A Reminder” have any relevance to my questions?

“If I had one hour to solve a problem, and my life depended on the answer, I would spend 55 minutes formulating questions, and 5 minutes solving the problem” – Albert Einstein

 

123 Responses

  1. Hi Lynne. Though I struggle with the repetition of the questions, it seems they are good questions. As the time has grown closer to the event, I have felt very uneasy about the event. It seems many in this movement are so open that deception is great. So many itching ears searching for soothsayers to answer their questions. Yes, there are many false spirits abroad and they are having a hay day with many in this movement. I know because I had to learn the hard way and experience it. There are so many who believe they are doing Gods work, but damn themselves and deceive many who get in their wake of destruction. Anyway, it seems this gathering on the Mesa is just that. An opportunity to scratch some itching ears and invite the false spirits to have a party.

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    • The only question that should be asked of God is, if each of us individually should attend. To ask any other question is confusing the issue.

      Sturgis is NOT “approved” by God, yet “someone” attends that gathering. Some families are told to still attend LDS Sunday meetings which have Primary or YW age children, because there are still worthwhile friends etc. in that ward while another family is told NOT to attend because they do not have children (or some other reason known by God) and can worship at home more effectively are BOTH getting the right answer for THEIR family.

      To say that just because one does not get the same answer as the next person, that they are following false spirits is not correct. Each of us have our own life experiences we need to have and the Lord is very good at tailoring the “approved” events we are to engage in for each of us. And we may be asked to attend an event that is unapproved (Sturgis for example) for any number of reasons unknown to us, but only known to God. So to ask any other question is confusing because it then brings in other factors which we may not have any right to know or reason for God to give us an answer to. It might not be our stewardship to know if God is working through Bret or if it is even “approved”! We need only to know if we should attend. Do all the events that will be going on there, (organized, in private or public) need to be “approved” by God, or could that be an overwhelming question to ask. Can you imagine if you asked that about Sturgis!!! That might be immaterial to God, He might have completely other motives for asking you to attend an event or gathering.

      Simply asking if “I” should attend for my best and highest good is MY answer and it will not certainly be the next persons answer, because based on the experiences we each need to have the answer will vary. Just because we get an answer not to attend one thing, does not mean it is bad. It could be timing, a conflict only God knows exists and maybe another thing is a priority. Maybe we could be in the right place at the right time and the wrong place at the wrong time. God can help us determine that for each of us.

      Even if the event is “approved by God” is the wrong question in determining our attendance. We need to ask if we are to be there and obey. We should not worry or judge or condemn or question what anyone else is doing. We are not going to all get the same answer! Just obey what we are asked to do, and to not be swayed in our answer based on someone else’s answer- and the experience gained will be for our good based on what God needs us to do.

      On the topic of dancing. Maybe the question should be the same for this gathering. Unless you have attended one first hand, it is engaging in gossip, assumptions, judgments and is open to someone else’s interpretation, when it might be something you need to attend in person to grasp the whole picture. It would be like asking someone to tell you about a sport game that went into overtime compared to attending it in person to get the feel of the whole game! No matter how or in what detail they try to explain the game to you, it is a futile effort compared to experiencing the game in person.

      I can speak from experience and have the perspective of the honeycomb dancing from the beginning. The intent was: to remind women of their femininity, their beauty and God given gifts as women for one. Two- In a competitive world, we needed to be reminded of creation and the unity that can exist in a male dominate world and not to compete, but to see how we can become one and support one another in our God given roles. Balance, unity and love between male and female will have to emerge on a grand scale if we are ever to be a people ready to be selected for Zion. 3-Praise and worship of our Lord is at the core of the entire gathering of women.
      Praise. Worship. Creation. Balance. Femininity.

      As with any endeavor, whether purposed by God or not, there will be setbacks. Just because you are given a task to exercise our spiritual muscles with, be it a tithing experiment, a dance group, a retreat or a charter school, and forge ahead asking God along the way to see if we are heading in the right direction, He will let the experiment unfold to give us the experience. We all need tasks to give us the experience and God will provide the medium. But it may not be perfect in it’s execution. The assignment might be of God, but not the execution done perfectly. He allows us the latitude in that. Men have not been excluded, but the original intent was to dance as women and the vision from the beginning was shown to include men, but that has only just barely started to be realized because of the men’s desire to be united with their wives in the purpose put forth. Timing is everything.

      The intent of ones heart is what we should be looking at, and I think it is what God is looking at also. The Honeycomb has not been perfect, adjustments have been made to correct our mistakes, haste, and lack of understanding at the beginning. But the music, the dancing and each aspect is with the intent to praise and worship the Lord who’s sacrifice and example are given for us to follow and to whom we owe all our honor and praise! The scriptures give many examples of praise and worship, and many of them include dance. It is a form of praise and worshiping the Lord.

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  2. My short answer to your overly long string of questions about this event: This event is turning into something rather wacko organized by people following their own contradictory voices. It’s not what I originally expected and hoped it would be.

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    • What are you referring to when you say “wacko”? Specifics you know are true would be nice to hear about. Otherwise you are just rumor mongering. Ruth

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  3. Absolutely brilliant! These are the exact reasons I’m not going. Thank you for voicing the questions in such a compelling manner. I also recommend to all who read this that they should stay away from this meeting.

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  4. Brethren, I think you have uncovered some of the problems associated with this meeting. I am hardly an expert, but if Heavenly Mother wanted us to worship her in such a manner, there would be revelation directing such an act and most likely some precedence in scripture. I think it shows to all of us how fast and easy we can shift from God’s will, by inches or miles, even with good intentions. It is extremely easy for all of us to drift.

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  5. Fear is a curious thing…it is amazing the power it has over mankind. When we allow fear of the unknown to take over, it can cloud even our truest and best intentions and will ultimately damn us from the progrssion we so desparately desire. If one receives a prompting to not go, then don’t go, but if one receives the prompting to go then trust yourself and trust in the promptings that come to your soul. Don’t allow outside influences dissuade you from listening from within.

    You have asked some valid questions and it is very wise to ponder upon them. I am interested in why some of the questions posed are based on what other people are doing or not doing or why some are going and some are not going or who is speaking and not speaking. Are you giving authority to others by allowing what they choose to do or not do sway your decision? Have you ever considered that maybe The Lord would ask different things from each of us, maybe even the opposite of things to see if we are really willing to obey his very will he speaks to us?

    One more question…do you believe in AofF 9?

    “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.”

    If He has YET to reveal many great and important things, then those ordinances or “things” that have not BEEN revealed will not be in places that are easily seen by his children. I would be very careful about mocking or criticizing something just because it is not known or familiar to you.

    Be mindful, be thoughtful and be wise in your of your decisions and choices, but don’t let fear have power over you. Fear is opposite of faith and it is the workings of darkness.

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  6. The process of using questions is exactly what Denver does both professionally as an attorney and as a spiritual mentor. Einstein was right and you did a good job of following his advice. In my opinion, the asking of questions and asking “why, why, why” is what the Savior meant when he said we are to be as little children. Children are naturally curious and ask why as part of their learning process. We cannot have the knowledge to save us unless we ask the questions first.

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  7. Amen! Thank you for being so honest in your question.

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    • Her questions should have included if she got any of the information correct, or if she was going off of false information. Which she was.

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      • Just wondering – what false info?

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  8. God forbids goddess worship, both in the Old and New Testaments, along with the accompanying practice of spiritualism, witchcraft, sorcery, and divination. He clearly addressed this issue with the first of the Ten Commandments: ““I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. You must not have any other god but me.” (Deuteronomy 5:6-7).

    If God did not tolerate the idolatry of goddess worship in the Land of Israel and as a result their land was laid to waste, what do you think he is going to do to this land as a result of those who choose to mingle the worship of the True God of Israel with the idolatry of goddess worship now?

    For those engaging in such idolatry, I would invite you to return to the Doctrine of Christ and the God of Israel and stop making offerings to the idol you have created called, “Heavenly Mother”. When the disciples asked the Christ to teach them how to pray he DID NOT SAY “OUR MOTHER WHICH ART IN HEAVEN HALLOWED BE THY NAME!”

    The message of the restoration affirms that God is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. His course is one eternal round like the sun following in its path from day to day. In HIM there is no variance which is why we are not consumed. Will we embrace the covenant keeping God of Israel with his laws, statutes, and decrees or we will heed the other message of pleasing things and treat the gospel like a box of skittles–PICKING OUR FAVORITE FLAVORS AND CONVENIENTLY LEAVING OUT THE ONES WE DON’T LIKE!.

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  9. Asking long lists of hypothetical questions is not the same thing as teaching truth. Criticism is easy. Half truths, ad-hominem attacks, straw-man arguments, these are simple and cheap, though they betray a poverty of thought and discernment. This is the same sort of attack routinely employed against Joseph Smith.

    Like so:

    1. Why should I listen to a man who claims to have translated the Book of Abraham from ancient papyrus when modern experts have proven his translation false?

    2. Why should I trust anything said by a man whose family history includes dabbling in magic and the occult?

    3. Why should I believe a man who lied for years about his involvement in polygamy, marrying girls as young as fourteen, and women who were married to other men?

    4. Why should I believe the Book of Mormon when there hasn’t been a single shred of archaeological evidence, ever, anywhere, to support it?

    5. Why should I believe a man who was repeatedly arrested for all sorts of crimes?

    And so it goes. See how easy it is? See how convincing it can be, while remaining utterly false?

    Did Jeremy Runnells write your list of questions?

    You will certainly sow doubt and fear with these questions. Who is the author of such?

    By going on the attack, you sound and feel very much like those who attack Joseph Smith, Denver Snuffer, the Book of Mormon, or any other truth by merely posing “what if” questions. And those with poor critical thinking skills will respond emotionally and be dissuaded.

    I have personal knowledge of a number of the items you have questioned. I know you have misrepresented them, and done so intentionally to sow fear. I also know things you have not said that would shed a very different light on this discussion. I am disappointed in this hatchet piece.

    You started with the Einstein quote about asking the right question.

    There is a highly relevant and right question I must therefore ask:

    Why should I believe you?

    Of course the answer is that I should not put my trust in ANY arm of flesh, including you, Tim, Denver, Jeremy Runnells, or even Joseph Smith. I must ask God and trust Him alone.

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    • Hello,

      I did not interpret her questions as some sort of attempt to teach truth. Neither do I feel she is attacking anyone, though I understand that human nature being what it is–weak and easily affronted, I can see how those involved with putting on this reunion would feel hurt and possibly other emotions by what has been shared. I feel that she is asking questions in search of truth and to get others to think. If you have “personal knowledge” and are more enlightened on some of these answers, please do share. You have a real opportunity to speak truth and curb potential falsehoods right now.

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    • Adrian, I thought her questions were valid. In fact, perhaps it might be a good idea to ask for a straight answers from the organizer and his wife if they are engaged in Goddess Worship. Are they planning or have they been worshiping Heavenly Mommy in rituals, dance, and other things described in her post? In all honesty the whole “reunion” thing is starting to sound like the Mormon Burning Man gathering.

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  10. My name is Samantha Corbridge, I am who Lynn refers to as “The organizers wife”. Many of you don’t know me, I prefer it that way as I would rather just point to Christ yet I feel to respond briefly and simply this beautiful spring morning. I truly don’t know why or how someone could make such judgements about someone and something they really know nothing about. I am nothing more than someone who loves the Lord Jesus Christ and worships Jesus Christ. I LOVE and HONOR HIM. In my daily imperfect actions I point humbly to Him. My heart is sorrowful that I am so far from Zion but my hope is in HIM. I follow HIM. He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. I testify of Jesus Christ and I am dependent on HIM, I am nothing and He is everything. This I testify and will always testify.

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    • Well since you are the organizers wife being referred to– are you engaging in any of the behaviors being described such as Heavenly Mother Worship? Are you engaging in the honycomb dance she described? I think her questions are fair so perhaps you could respond directly to the questions she has raised?

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      • Hi Rob,

        You have a very strange definition of fair questions.

        I heard you’ve been sacrificing the neighborhood dogs and cats on an altar in your back yard.

        So have you or haven’t you? And if you have, aren’t these unclean animals? How do you think God feels about your unauthorized sacrifices? How do you explain yourself? What are you hiding? Will you address these accusations? Hey, these are fair questions, after all.

        No, in all seriousness, I hereby categorically state I’ve heard no such things about Brother Rob, nor do I believe any such things about him. I’m merely making a point that people aren’t obligated to respond to accusations simply because accusations are made. Insisting they do so is not kind, fair, or even reasonable.

        Some people have decided to attend the reunion. Some have decided not to attend. Great. No problem. But why are there those who, having made the decision not to attend, feel the need to be so publicly vocal and derogatory about the event? Why do they feel the need to attempt to sway others, even by stooping to unkind and untrue accusations? Why the big deal?

        Something doesn’t smell right here.

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        • Ok Adrian,

          No I have not nor have I ever sacrificed any animal on an altar at any time. No I have no problem with you asking as I have nothing to hide. As for how God feels, I doubt he has a problem since nothing like that has gone on. If you would like to come over and see my back yard you would be welcome at any time. So if i can put on my big boy pants and answer honestly why is it so offensive to you that Lynnie has asked these questions? Why cannot the organizers just provide honest answers.

          If such things are going on and by the testimony of some who already appear to be engaging in this gross form of idolatry, do you really think this is not a big deal. God is a God of Covenant and Law as well as Love, but I fear you are putting yourselves and others in danger. However well intentioned you may be.

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        • Rob, you’ve completely missed my point.

          But I don’t wish to argue. Do or say what you feel you must to oppose this event. Dissuade who you will, based on your understanding and opinions.

          I’m content to advise people to take it up with the Lord and do as He directs.

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      • I too find it odd that she couldn’t give a simple, “No, we aren’t doing sacral honeycomb dances in worship of Heavenly Mother. That’s false.”

        It seems like a pretty easy way to settle some controversy.

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    • So, while we appreciate your testimony of Christ, any clarification on Lynne’s suggestions about HM and the dance etc. might be helpful to stem the unpleasant and accusing comments. Any truth to those questions?
      I am relying on the Lord & Spirit to assist in making my decision, but others might benefit from hearing your answers.
      Ruth

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  11. Man stuff seems to get more and more strange all the time. Well, even though I do not know all the stuff you are talking about, I still could guarantee that as weird and scary as you have made this all sound, I could ask questions about the LDS temple endowment that would sound far more sinister, far closer to demon worship, and far more idolatrous than anything thrown out above. Although I do admit it sounds pretty weird.
    Worship has always been something different to different people. Pharisees always say their way is better than everyone else’s way. If we cannot find beauty and truth in Native American worship, Buddhist worship, all different kinds of Christian worship, and many other forms of worship it is simply because our hearts and minds are not open. If we think there is only one way to worship (the way we ourselves happen to be doing it) it is because of pride and we are climbing the steps of the rameumptom.

    15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

    Tell me all of you who think your way is the only way if this brother is a member of the church of Christ, and has sincerely been brought to Christ or not? Do you think he has heard of (or needs to hear of) Denver Snuffer? Who will say the Lord Jesus Christ is not with this brother as much as any of you? Was he baptized the way it says in the Book of Mormon? Does he take the sacrament like you? The movements of God are far greater than Denver Snuffer and company.

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    • What if I believe that worshiping God involves practicing sex acts in public? This has been and is a common practice amongst many who worship God according to the dictates of their own conscience. Would you accept this form of worship?

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      • Um,

        No.

        Did I say all forms of worship, or just many forms of worship? I do not believe lust leads to the worship of God. I am talking about sincere worship of God, not worship of the flesh. Perhaps I was not clear in my meaning.

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        • So you agree that some forms of worship are not pleasing to God?

          By the way, some wiccans, and modern “sacred prostitutes” would disagree with you vehemently that sexual expression does not worship God. They believe very strongly that expressing that power is a pure form of worship. The ancient Greeks and Romans would disagree with you as well.

          There are all kinds of SINCERE forms of worship. Is praying to St. Francis or asking for the Holy Virgin to make intercession for you an acceptable form of worship? How about handling snakes? How about speaking in tongues as the Pentecostals do? How about using peyote to make contact with the “spirits”? How about practicing as a medium for money? How about the various rituals and pilgrimages performed by Muslims and Jews? Is the wearing of the hijab a sincere form of worship? What about the practices of Buddhist monks in solitary meditation, renunciation of a wants, etc? How about the rituals to enter manhood, involving tatooing, piercing and tests of pain practiced by some indigenous peoples? We could go on and on and on.

          Would you not agree that ALL of these are SINCERE forms of worship, when practiced in sincerity by the devout? Is sincerity really the test of God’s approbation?

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        • WOW ….. What exactly is Lynne’s purpose in educating us about this supposed evil practice? Is she coming from a space of love and charity, or is she coming from a space of fear and retribution? Joseph Smith would be considered one of the crazies also … for it is well documented that he “practiced” magic (or what is supposedly called magic) before his first vision. I’m just wondering why Lynne is trying to destroy a gathering of people who want to gather and worship God? Is she being used as an instrument of God or by the adversary?

          And BeStill&Know what are your purposes for sharing? Do you really think women are going up to the Grand Mesa to do awful and horrible acts? Shame on you for even intimating that. Seriously … why does everything with carnally minded people have to come down to sexual acts?

          For Goodness Sakes … I don’t think the people who are going to the Grand Mesa have any other intent than to worship God … let them worship the way that God has inspired them to worship.

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        • Hannah,

          My comments have nothing to do with the gathering. I have no idea what will go on there, and I’m perfectly content to have them worship however they may.

          My comments were in response to Minorities use of the word “sincere” as a qualifier for legitimate, worthy forms of worship. I’m simply exploring the logic of Minority’s comments.

          It is not my intent to cast aspersions on anyone else. I did in NO WAY insinuate that anyone associated with the “reunion” will be practicing anything untoward. Before you declare “shame” upon me for anything, I suggest you read carefully what I wrote, note the context, and the various examples.

          I wish you well.

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        • You tell me if the brother in the video I left was a member of the body of Christ. If you can learn that from God you can also learn the answer to all of your questions.
          The truth is that some of the things you listed are acceptable forms of worship to God.
          Funny enough you mentioned handling snakes. Have you read the signs who followed the believers recently? So yes I am looking for someone who can take up serpents:)

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        • Then why steer the conversation off into the realm of inanity, BeStill&Know?

          We are talking here about a specific gathering, and you want to show off your arguing skills. Let’s bring it back in, shall we?

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  12. Samantha- that is all fine and dandy, and I am sure you are a super person, but you didn’t address anything in the post…

    Are you, in fact, promoting a “honeycomb ritual” among the women and some type of ceremonial moonlight dance?

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    • Whatever each individual is being told about the reunion is up to them. This post tastes far too much like viscous gossip and unfounded inaccurate accusations. I feel no peace and love from it, but fear and judgment and we know from which spirit that derides. If we wish to avoid jarrings and contentions we wish to not speak about each other in this manner. So SAD!!!!!

      I know that the southern Utah fellowship is struggling with the same thing. Some people made some mistakes that hurt others. The others wanted to write a 50 page email abut it accusing and condemning them and blasting it out to the communities! What did the Lord have to say about that? Something about throwing stones sound familiar? Praying for those who use you? Any of that ring a bell? Who is THE accuser? Not the Lord. We all must be watching our actions to make sure they come from a space of love and that our words uplift others NOT tear them down, or the GREATER sin is on us. These are the things that cause the jarrings and contentions. Judgment, accusations and condemnation! Where is mercy and love? When YOU have made a mistake and someone hath shown you mercy, what did you feel? An overwhelming peace, love and gratitude that changed your heart forever. Please stop tearing each other down.

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      • At the moment I’m writing this, Abaih’s plea for love and understanding has received 15 thumbs up votes and 2 thumbs down. I was under the impression that whatever our differences, most of us have moved past judgment and are at least TRYING to embrace unconditional love as our motivating characteristic. So I have to wonder: who are these people going to the effort of voting down a message that does nothing but call for peace, love, mercy, gratitude, and understanding between us all?

        I found that just a little disquieting.

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  13. Why are we succumbing to gossip and strife?

    I am sure there is nothing that is mandatory.

    Please let us rise above this. If anyone feels like there is something off the mark, let them ask of God. If you feel like you shouldn’t go, ask God. If you feel like you should go, ask God. It is simple and peaceful.

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  14. Great questions, Lynne. Hopefully peoples will simply share in honest truth and not respond from a place of prideful indignation. I say that because just this morning in my conversation with the Lord, I finally understood how my own pride and eager willingness to feel wounded and affronted has been hindering my connection to Him as well as my healing. For too long I’ve used anger and hurt as crutches to help me walk through life instead of simply taking His Arm. He truly is anxious for each of us to turn fully to Him in every thought, word, and deed. Every day, all day. I’d really love for all of us who feel “awakened” to Him to speak openly, honestly, and without push back when someone expresses their own heart and mind. Stop expecting everyone else to do what we ourselves seem to struggle with doing. I place myself at the front of the line in needing to do this. Let’s remember who the real enemy is–it is not flesh and blood.

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  15. There are many inaccuracies in Lynne’s questions. I think we should allow Bret and Samantha to explain.

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  16. Adrian, are you one of the speakers? Who are the other speakers?

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  17. “While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading [the beginning of the 21 page Reunion packet ], which reads: [the theme or spirit of the gathering is to remember and reclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith during the initial Restoration. All that is scheduled and planned centers around deepening our own personal repentance, that in Christ, we might yet become a Zion people].

    I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed [an answer from God about attending the Reunion], I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the [various Latter-day Saints] of the different [Mormon] sects understood the same [packet] so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the [packet].

    At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as [Bret] directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.”

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  18. I am engaged in Goddess worship. I happen to know that Mary Magdalene is the wife of Jesus and I talk to Her. I talk to Heavenly Mother frequently and they talk back. Am I sinning in doing this? Please tell me (I hope you will not bear false witness and accuse me of sin without revelation on the matter) If you say I am sinning tell me how you know other than because of your trust in what some other human has said or written.
    Honeycomb as a type of sacrament has been done for thousands of years if any of you don’t know. (I am not speaking from any group or fellowship and have no dog in this fight) there is a reason alchemists, freemasons, joseph smithites, and brother of jaredites all have the honeybee, or the hive as one of their main symbols. You can only claim to know half of the gospel if there is no worship of Heavenly Mother. If you neglect Mary Magdalene you neglect half of Christ. Why do we not talk openly about these things? I am not ashamed. Anything without the worship of my Eternal Mother standing beside my Heavenly Father, being equal in all things, is darkness to me. But the greatest argument mortals can bring against it is “a bible, a bible, a joseph, a joseph, a Denver, a Denver,”
    Let me tell you what is going to happen. Society will break down. All of those relying on men will be cut off from their idols and then the test begins. Are you getting answers from God right now so clearly, like a man speaking to another man, that if you were separated from Denver snuffer, thomas monson, or your scriptures, that You could pray and receive answers with a perfect knowledge from God, so that God could lead you from day to day? Does even one belief hinge on a man standing between you and God to receive answers and revelation for you? If so you are in need of repentence. No man or woman can lead you or me to Zion, only God, by pure revelation can do so.
    He will guide those who know his voice to safety, those who trust in other men to know Gods voice for them do not have hold of the iron rod.

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    • I too also engage in worshipping my Mother in Heaven, just I do Father and my Savior. I have also engaged and danced in a Honeycomb and it is beautiful and it is glorious! You can have your opinion in the matter, but if you have never actually been a part of it or experienced in person, then all you are doing is making yourself look like fools. Talk all you want and preach like you have all the answers when you belittle and criticize, because that is the beauty…I do not and will not let your words belittle and demean MY experience! Father has been there, Mother has been there, and The Lord has been there. I felt THEM and I will NEVER deny it.

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    • I appreciate your honesty about the Idolatry you have chosen to engage in. Very Sad– I think the Prophet Jeremiah summed up similar behavior thus:

      Then all the women present and all the men who knew that their wives had burned incense to idols—a great crowd of all the Judeans living in northern Egypt and southern Egyptfn—answered Jeremiah,

      “We will not listen to your messages from the LORD!

      We will do whatever we want. We will burn incense and pour out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven just as much as we like—just as we, and our ancestors, and our kings and officials have always done in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For in those days we had plenty to eat, and we were well off and had no troubles!

      But ever since we quit burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and stopped worshiping her with liquid offerings, we have been in great trouble and have been dying from war and famine.”

      “Besides,” the women added, “do you suppose that we were burning incense and pouring out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven, and making cakes marked with her image, without our husbands knowing it and helping us? Of course not!”

      Then Jeremiah said to all of them, men and women alike, who had given him that answer,

      “Do you think the LORD did not know that you and your ancestors, your kings and officials, and all the people were burning incense to idols in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

      It was because the LORD could no longer bear all the disgusting things you were doing that he made your land an object of cursing—a desolate ruin without inhabitants—as it is today.

      All these terrible things happened to you because you have burned incense to idols and sinned against the LORD. You have refused to obey him and have not followed his instructions, his decrees, and his laws.”

      Then Jeremiah said to them all, including the women, “Listen to this message from the LORD, all you citizens of Judah who live in Egypt.

      This is what the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, the God of Israel, says: ‘You and your wives have said, “We will keep our promises to burn incense and pour out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven,” and you have proved by your actions that you meant it. So go ahead and carry out your promises and vows to her!’

      “But listen to this message from the LORD, all you Judeans now living in Egypt: ‘I have sworn by my great name,’ says the LORD, ‘that my name will no longer be spoken by any of the Judeans in the land of Egypt. None of you may invoke my name or use this oath: “As surely as the Sovereign LORD lives.”

      For I will watch over you to bring you disaster and not good. Everyone from Judah who is now living in Egypt will suffer war and famine until all of you are dead.

      Only a small number will escape death and return to Judah from Egypt. Then all those who came to Egypt will find out whose words are true—mine or theirs! (Jeremiah 44)

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      • Are you committing idolatry with your interpretation of Jeremiah or did God give you the interpretation?

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      • Obviously Brother Kay you have not read Margaret Barker’s “Mother of the Lord” where it details King Josiah and the wicked high priests and how the Deuteronomists changed the worship of Mother/Father and Son (three Gods in the temple) into the worship of the Law/Torah and Moses. Margaret is considered the female Hugh Nibley and is renowned for her biblical work and knowledge. I agree with Minority and Kaai in their posts and analysis. Joseph Smith did not live long enough to restore all things and that restoration will not happen until the Elias comes right before the Messiah. I don’t know why people think that both Jesus and Father would not want to honor Father’s wife, our Mother in Heaven. It is rather ridiculous when you think of it … Jesus and Father not wanting us to know and honor her? Seriously, people, is that bizarre? Mother does not force herself upon anyone and therefore those who do not want to know her do not get to have the privilege and blessings. Knowing and honoring Mother in no way diminishes either the Savior or the Father … in fact it enlarges our feeling of love for all of them … We LDS think the Catholics are so messed up because they believe the trinity is only Father, who is also Jesus, who is also the Holy Spirit. Yet are we not also messed up in not acknowledging the Mother of our spirits? Worshipping all three, Mother/Father and Son only enlarges our vision and our love for others. How can that be a bad thing? I’m not about leaving Father and Jesus out of my worship, but I am no longer willing to leave Mother out either.

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        • Obviously I have. I just don’t agree with her feminist interpretations and overtone.

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        • Rob Kay, could you explain to me why you don’t think Jesus or Father would want us to know Mother or honor her?

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        • Rob,

          Were you aware that Denver quotes Margaret Barker and in fact has high regard and respect for the woman? All anyone has to do is go onto Denver’s website and search for Margaret Barker and you will find some interesting information. So for anyone on this site that follows Denver, you may want to check out his website.

          No wonder Joseph couldn’t teach the people the deeper things … they were so unwilling to accept higher truths or the mysteries of God. We are in the same boat as the early saints. God forgive us.

          If you are the Rob Kay that loves the holy days and all things jewish, it seems that you don’t understand the Shekinah.

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        • Dinah and Hannah. God does encompass the masculine and the feminine. The idolatry consists of enthroning a Goddess and creating a new form or system of religious worship that God has not ordained. When the people do not uphold or sustain God’s laws even the 10 commandments then this is one of many multiple forms of Idolatry that take place. As for the Shekinah while the word is feminine in gender in Hebrew the Shekinah is not a woman or a Goddess. The feminine gender denotes function such as comforting and nurturing. Some of Margeret Barkers research is very good, but her conclusions do not always hold up under scrutiny. I do not deny that Goddess worship or the existence of a feminine God existed in the Israel, but Israel was destroyed for this type of idolatry not blessed because of it. You guys have your agency though, but it is becoming more and more clear that the gentiles are rejecting the fullness of the gospel. Who would have thought that the same sins of ancient Israel would be found again in these latter days among the gentiles who have the Book of Mormon. Interesting times indeed.

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        • I’m surprised that you don’t seem to recognize that, in the Hebrew, the word for “God” is a compound of both male and female. Greek has no such compound terminology, and so with the Septuagint, we gained a deity which is solely masculine.

          The more I read about this, the more it seems that worshipping God in a way that recognizes both Father and Mother and well as Son is not idolatry.

          Thanks for being the opposition that has continued the conversation and made that clear to me, Rob. :o)

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      • If that is how you choose to perceive it, then it is what it is. I see it differently from my experience and so I choose to continue on the path that works for me. God knows my heart and The Lord is my judge, THANK GOODNESS!! Because I have already been judged here.
        I appreciate your passion in this, but it doesn’t make you an expert on God or his mysteries.

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    • minority of one…I would really like to chat with you privately. FB – Scott Stover or e-mail at scootd28@yahoo.com. Look forward to hearing from you.

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  19. I was going to say what minority of one said, but I was too slow…

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    • Kaai, thank you .. for your response … It means more than you can ever know. I met you at dinner Monday night and I’m so distraught with what has been written by Lynne. God bless you my brother.

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      • Dinah! Oh my sweet sister! Yes, it’s a sad situation, there is so much unbelief, I wonder and mourn over the unbelief and how much longer Father will suffer all of us.

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  20. Whatever is going to be used for good will be adulterated and corrupted by the evil one. With that in mind, I thought I would post the following … from two NDEs These men may answer the question re: dance and you all can make up your own mind what you believe in. I believe the God of Creation is a joyful God and honors any attempt of ours to connect Mother or Father or Jesus.

    In Eben Alexander’s book “Map of Heaven” (a neurosurgeon who had a NDE – pgs.116-117). “I looked down …. And they were doing something that was analogous to what those perpetually blooming flowers were doing … they were dancing. Like music, dance is an ancient activity, its origins going deep into the very beginnings of human life on the planet. And like every primary human activity, it reflects the primary cosmic reality – that of the worlds above from which we come. When people dance, they are acting from that part of themselves that knows and remembers where it comes from and where it’s going. That knows this world is not the end. That’s why people dance at weddings – that early ceremony in which the union of two people evokes the larger union of heaven and earth. If the flower is perhaps the most heavenly object we have here on earth, dancing is perhaps the most heavenly activity. And both point to the same truth: the larger life we hope for is real. Dancing, like singing, is temporal. You can’t have dancing or music without time. In the world I entered during my days in coma, there was music and there was dancing. So again, there was time or rather, the deep time of those worlds. It was a richer, more spacious kind of time than we experience here on earth. The Christian Philosopher Thomas Aquinas had a word for this time –above-time that I encountered. He called it “aeveternity” – the time of the angels. He did not believe this was an abstract state, but rather a very real and very active one. This is a kind of time in which flowers bloom and bloom again. And where the music and dancing never stop.”

    In Howard Storm’s NDE he was taught in heaven there are beings so holy and wholly (complete – they have become so whole) that there is no longer any doubt or any blemish or shadow or hesitancy – they are ready and eager to be one with God, to be in communion with God. People don’t come to that easily, but it is the desire of all beings to come to Christ people are invited to participate with God in the ongoing act of creation. The way they participate is by bringing your own uniqueness and personality and life experience to God. The analogy that I was taught it is like they become part of the song of creation, they become part of the heavenly choir. God is the conductor of the song of creation. The song of creation is the creation … we are being sung (over) by God and the heavenly choir and if they were to cease the song of creation there would be no physical universe, no time, no space. It is your own uniqueness, your own self that becomes a voice in the choir with the creation. The universe is a vibratory state and space and time are created by the song of creation. It is our origin and our source. We come into this world for a variety of experiences and somehow we think we are separate and apart but we are all connected. What we get to experience in this life is both separateness and interconnectedness. Angels and Jesus always refer to God as The One. The most profound prayer of the Jewish faith proclaims that God is One.

    If you have never heard of Ian Clayton his teachings are quite incredible about what Mother in Heaven taught him after Jesus introduced him to the Father and then Father introduced him to the Mother.

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  21. 9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
    Alma 12:9

    Y’all figure it out!

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  22. Love it when people are loving.
    Love it when people are unassuming.
    Love it when people give others others the benefit of the doubt.
    Love it when people aren’t casting judgement.
    Love it when people are Christlike and it shows in the way they talk, act and think.
    Love it when people don’t question others motives and demand an explanation.

    We all have a huge lesson to learn in all of this and that is charity, the pure love of Christ. Love so focused in Christ that we only have a desire to help lift, love and encourage one another. We need more of that in our groups. Much much much more.

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    • Kathryn, my thoughts are very much like yours – this is what I came up with early in the a.m.:

      https://scottstover.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/an-ensign-unto-the-remnant/

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  23. Good post Bill. I believe that there is always a Judas among the righteous who divulges the mysteries to people that they believe are ready, and in reality, they are not open to any mysteries. Even though Jesus knew Judas would betray Him, I think he was giving us a pattern as to what to expect … opposition in all things. And lessons to learn re our own weaknesses and others.

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  24. Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires among them; therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

    so, none of the things warned about in the OP appear here, but the entire OP appears here.

    perhaps what keeps zion away is not what you think it is.

    what if more important than bees or blue dresses or what valid reason to spend out of your zions bank account was that we dont contend, or Jar, or cause strife. even if we think we are right.

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    • So… the prophets that spoke out against this practice over and over again and were killed for it, should’ve just shut up so every one could get along?

      Horsecrap.

      Worship of the queen of heaven is the MAIN heathen practice that Israel adopted that was condemned over and over and over again. And now we should just keep our mouths shut when members of the Bride want to fornicate with her as Israel did anciently?

      Heaven forbid. I will cry out against this no matter how much those who prostitute themselves to her shriek and cry out.

      The same fate awaits those who fornicate with her now as happened to those who did anciently- they will be exiled from Zion and scattered.

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    • I appreciate Samantha’s response. She simply referred to her desire to serve the Lord, and by so doing, she did not contribute to the jarrings and contentions so abundant concerning this post.

      This remnant reunion could be such a non-issue. Those who feel directed by the Lord to go, would go, and those directed by Him to stay, would not attend, and there would be no taking sides, bickering, or trying to convince others to side with your particular way of thinking. I find it sad that there are those who feel it is their duty to dissuade others from attending, alter the facts about the activities, and in the process ruffle up all kinds of contention and nasty feelings which are certainly not the fruits of the Spirit.

      This topic just doesn’t rest. I believe we all need to find out from the Lord whether we are being influenced by evil spirits, seek the Holy Ghost, and stop worrying about everybody else.

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      • She also didn’t make clear their plans for the weekend. But the silence is deafening. If they were so sure of the rightness of this idolatry, they would proudly admit that they are doing this honeycomb ritual dance (or whatever it is) and not hide behind their silence.

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        • Choosing to not respond is not the same thing as admitting some sort of guilt. Perhaps the “deafening” silence is so people will stop trying to settle this issue by arguing, and instead take it to the Lord as we all should.

          Take it to the Lord. Do what He says. Is there a problem with that?

          I find it sad that people who have little or no idea what they’re talking about are seeking to tell others what to do, while those who do know are simply asking people to let the Lord lead them.

          It’s sickening, really, that we, who hope to one day become Zion, can’t even plan a weekend worship conference, or allow others to do so, without jarrings and contentions, accusations, demands, and fear, fear, fear. The heavens weep over this foolishness.

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        • No, Adrian, the heavens weep that the Saints would be so easily fooled by the same false worship that satan has used since almost the beginning and which is spoken again multiple times in His word.

          Should we “take it to the Lord” before we decide whether or not to commit adultery? Because there is really no difference.

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        • Adrian, I think if you are involved and have first hand knowledge then you should be honest and address whether the things described in Lynnie’s post are true. Otherwise those who are so engaged in putting this on can at any time be open and honest regarding the activities.

          What is really sickening and sad is that you are not being open and forthright in answering her questions. Perhaps what people are concerned about is getting down there and finding people engaging in pagan/new age goddess worship under the guise of the gospel.

          What the Heavens truly weep over is the trampling under foot of God’s commandments and his Son while trying to synchronize the holy with the profane. So come on Adrian– provide simple and straight forward and authoritative answers to her questions if you have first hand knowledge or ask the even organizers to address her questions. This is not brain surgery.

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        • Humphreycn75, are you really now saying that those who go down there are going to commit adultery? Seriously?

          You are *assuming* Lynne’s assertions have basis in fact. They you are saying that those who plan to attend are fooled by false worship.

          Has it occurred to you that this might be exactly what has been advertised? That the organizers are, in fact, telling the truth? That there will be true worship of Jesus Christ?

          What if angels attend? What if the gifts of the spirit are manifest? What if fellowship is enjoyed and bonds are formed and everyone leaves uplifted, strengthened and more committed to Christ?

          Why only the negative “what ifs?” Why this focus on fear? Why this need to criticize what has not even happened?

          And why this belief that merely going there means someone will do something terrible? Because if I get there and adultery is on the menu, that loud screeching sound you’ll hear will be my tires as I take my family and leave.

          Why the assumption that merely showing up will cause people to lose all reason and belief?

          Do you really think that little of those who plan to attend?

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        • Rob,

          Lynne’s questions are not mine to answer. You may call it sickening and sad all you want, but I’ll still leave it up to the Lord to lead and guide. Nobody should seek to follow me.

          Go To God. How many times must it be said? Why is this advice continually ignored?

          The organizers produced a packet with ample information. People should go there for authoritative information. Then they should ask God whether or not to attend.

          Who has trampled under foot God’s commandments? Are you accusing people of a future sin, based on what you think they’re going to do? I mean it’s one thing to be an accuser of the brethren, but now a future accuser based on what they might do?

          By the way, all you who plan to attend, please raise your hand if you intend to mindlessly do whatever you’re told, whether it be goddess worship, adultery (as has been said above) or any other thing you find sinful.

          This has gotten so ridiculous, I’m shaking my head in disbelief.

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  25. This has been an interesting string of comments and responses. The written word can be so ambiguous and yet powerful. As we know so well, the pen is indeed mightier than the sword.

    After reading the OP’s list of questions, as well as the comments, I feel as if the sharpness of words is piercing and harmful to the spirit. We may all worship differently, indeed we all sin differently.

    When considering the choice to add my small string of text, I was caught up in the idea of Jesus sitting behind a keyboard somewhere in cyberspace. I tried to imagine what he felt as his children strained over these issues. What would his words be, if posted here in black and white?I wish I knew.

    Honestly, I don’t know the Lord the way I should. The reality is that I only have a hope that I may come to know the Savior as one man knows another. Let us all press on with hope and understanding, for we truly are all one.

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  26. Wow, Tim just when I thought this blog was winding down into monotony, Lynne blows it wide open by stepping right on the Hornet’s nest. Good job, Lynne. For those of you who take offense at the questions, this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate your professed love for Christ by actually taking the time to engage in civil discourse and kind persuasion and long-suffering towards your less “enlightened” brethren. It amazes me that critics can take 10,000 punches at the GA’s, or the Church, and can’t take one gut-punch to their sacred cow without coming unglued. My there are a lot of spiritually unstable people out there.

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    • I find it interesting that all the focus turned to the women “idolaters” but nobody mentions the elephant in the room. The question should be whether Jesus Christ is running the show through Bret or not. If so, all other discussion is moot.

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      • You mean, I should only attend a function if Jesus Christ is “running the show” through the organizer of that function?

        So, the inspiration for the last RS program we had was ill received, because Jesus isn’t actually “running the show” through me?

        Should I stop attending LDS church because it’s been suggested that Jesus Christ is no longer running “that show”?

        Should I no longer take the sacrament at sacrament meetings because that ordinance has been changed and part of a bad show?

        Should I no longer attend the temple because the ordinances have been changed, and oh yeah, Jesus Christ isn’t “running the show” there anymore either?

        So Joseph Smith, who WAS involved in “running the Lord’s show” never made any type of mistake at all….and God certainly would not forgive him if he did make mistakes. So, steer clear of anything Joseph might have said, because he was a sinner, and some say a fallen prophet.

        Isn’t Christ involved in running all the shows, one way or another?

        Am I able to rate all the shows I go to, or do I have to rely on the ratings board?

        Do I sometimes see a bad show, and live to see another day?

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        • Great comment, LV!
          –Craig

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  27. I wonder how my wife would react if people told our kids that it was evil to talk to their mommy. Or if they tried to convince them that they should never seek her comfort or love or nurturing hand or else it would be evil.
    Luckily even if someone ignorantly taught my kids such a thing, my kids would still run to their mommy because they know her, they have felt her embraces, they have learned on her knees, she has comforted them whenever they have been sick, injured, or saddened, and there is nothing short of evil force that could keep them from the love of their mommy.
    The knowledge that my kids have of their mom is the same I have of my Heavenly Mother. There is nothing any human being could possibly say or do to separate me from Her love, Her voice, and Her reality. Heavenly Mother constantly is nourishing and providing for the people on here who are trying to dissuade others from acknowledging Her. She is the Tao. She is Creation. She is Life.
    How many of you have had an experience with the atonement of Jesus Christ where His love, reality, and grace was manifest to such a degree that you KNEW of His reality and Godhood, you knew of His power because it healed you? Could anything in the world convince you that what you experienced was evil after tasting of his goodness and marvelous light? Such is my experience with Heavenly Mother. There can be no evil, no hell, no darkness when Her Spirit is present. When Her Spirit is present with the Spirit of the Father you find the fulness of God. Her Spirit is what gives every plant, animal and human being it’s life. If you rejected Her spirit you would die instantly. Fortunately She asks for no credit, and Her love is stronger than the ignorance of those who turn their heads from Her.

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  28. Here’s some good advice:

    “Go to Doctrine and Covenants section 67 beginning at verse 10: “And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears…” [See, on the one hand are “jealousies,” because we hate it when someone has anything more than we have. We ought not be envious, we ought to rejoice in whatever good thing someone else has been given by the Spirit. We tend to be contentions, even in the blessings given by God. We have to strip ourselves from that. And “fears,” because there really are in the end only two emotions: one is love and other is fear. Everything derived from fear is negative, ultimately devolving into hatred. But the foundation of hatred is fear. On the other hand there is love. If you look at God’s Plan and the fight it led to in the preexistence, it was fear that motivated the rebellion. It was fear that motivated the adversary to become the accuser of the brethren. It was fear behind his opposition to this whole process now underway. It is jealousy behind opposition to the success anyone achieves in this life. We see jealousy aimed against anyone who repents. Because the adversary seeks the misery of all mankind, that they might be like unto him. Strip yourselves of jealousies and fears.”

    Denver Snuffer, Talk 8, page 10-11.

    Why all the fear?

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    • In D&C 50 it says “Wherefore, let every man beware lest he do that which is not in truth and righteousness before me.”

      Maybe people just want to make sure that they are not participating in something “which is not in truth and righteousness before [the Lord]?” I would never want to criticize someone’s desire to seek after righteousness by calling it “fear.”

      Heck, in Denver’s recent post ‘A Reminder’ he said:
      ” Preserving the restoration requires us to be very familiar with the scriptures of the restoration. At present we should *****fear***** most our ignorance of them.”

      Oh no, Denver is promoting FEAR!

      See, that’s just a poor argument. Context matters. You should fear ignorance of the scriptures and the gospel. You could do a search of the Book of Mormon and find other times “fear” has a place.

      There were issues raised in the blog post which remain unresolved. People like Rob Kay and myself just want more information, so that people can make educated decisions. Those questions remain unanswered by those who could answer. That doesn’t prove whether the issues raised are true or false, but it is unfortunate that we can’t get straight answers. [As an aside, I don’t think the packet on the remnant family reunion is adequate, it doesn’t resolve the questions posed and is very vague].

      I personally have an issue with the potential of innovating gospel ordinances. If I want to participate in innovated ordinances, I could just go to the LDS temples. That’s my concern, which remains unresolved. And guess what, Adrian? I feel no fear. Please stop marginalizing those that don’t want to make decisions in ignorance.

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      • You may have a sincere desire to glean enough information to help you make a decision to attend, Michel, but others here have made up their minds and have taken it upon themselves to warn others away from an event that hasn’t even taken place yet.

        Bret has repeatedly said this event is for those who have received a prompting by the Lord to attend. If you have not received any such prompting, there’s your answer. There is no need to worry that others might engage in black magic Voodoo ceremonies. They are capable of discerning the spirit for themselves.

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  29. I called Lynne after I read her blog post. I wanted her to know that I was extremely concerned that she had been given misinformation and is misrepresenting many things. She was very gracious and listened to me attentively. I asked her to pull or change her questions based on the new information I provided. She would not and said that she got first hand information and told me to post some clarifications in the comments. I will post some clarifications to some extent as you will see in what will follow. Lynne felt that these were her questions with her life filters on them and she did not want them retracted or changed. She meant no ill-will or harm, even though I warned her that there was harm probably done, especially to Samantha and her family.
    To answer some of Lynne’s questions as far as I am aware: (numbers correspond to her questions)
    1. Denver was not specifically invited to speak because of the large numbers of people he would draw who would just be there to hear him and not the other speakers and who might not be interested in forming relationships, but just want to hear Denver.
    5. You claim Bret said he was rebuked by Denver, but you never asked Bret what the rebuking was for. It could have been anything from using too much jelly on his PB and J to organizing this event. You used this to disparage Bret without any proof or backing up and that wasn’t kind.
    7. You backed out of being one of the original speakers, Lynne, and said the other three did not. You are trying to demonstrate that the Lord told you to back out and therefore that is proof that others should not go or speak. What if the Lord told the other speakers to go and speak? Can the Lord not tell one person to go one way and another to go another way? He knows our paths and what is good for each of us.
    9. You reference Rock Waterman here. You insinuate that Rock has ill-intent toward going and speaking just to further his blog and his following. Could it just be that he wants to gather with like-minded people and is sending out the invitation to others? Its sad to me that you would cast a shadow on his character.

    Now comes some of the heavier stuff.

    I have been a participant in dancing and the honeycomb since its inception around five years ago. I was one of the original participants. Denver was very aware of this group (just as an aside) as it was being figured out piecemeal what the Lord wanted done over a long period of time. What Lynne has portrayed here in her post is misguided and incorrect.

    Before I get into that, first and foremost, the “UTAH WOMAN” who began the honeycomb and dancing, WILL NOT BE DOING ANY CEREMONIAL or RITUAL anything on the Mesa. She has been asked to speak and she wanted to do a couple of dances with anyone who would like to participate. These will be based on Ancient Hebrew dances and are happy with clapping and grape weaving steps like you might see at a Greek food festival. Dance is a form of prayer and worship and has been for milennia. The honeycomb ceremony (which I will talk about further down) is completely separate from this gathering and will not even be discussed by her at the gathering. The fact that it is put out on this blog in such a misprepresented state is aggravating and sad.
    So, if you want to dance at the gathering, have at it. If you don’t, just watch. Its lovely.

    Okay, what I feel I want to disclose and describe about the honeycomb is as follows: (BTW, I did not ask anyone permission to share this. I pray this will not be offensive to those who have participated, as my intention is not full-disclosure, but more of a general understanding to the general public):
    The dancing done by these women is absolutely NOT worshipping Heavenly Mother. We do not dance under a full moon. Lynne wrote this, in my opinion, to give the impression of wiccan or pagan worship to the readers. This gives a false impression. (Someone may have done that somewhere, but that has not been done in any I have participated in over five years. We did dance outside once when it was warm and it was great!) We do not sing to Heavenly Mother nor have some huge piece of honeycomb in our hand that we wave in rituals and clouds appear over our heads. (Lynne never said that, it just seemed that was the portrait that was painted). Our gatherings are about the Savior. The bee is a symbol of Christ. Asenath had a honeycomb in her mouth. Why? She was born again and was changed from a pagan to one who was worthy to become the wife of Joseph. We all wish to be reborn in our Lord. We do not worship Asenath nor is she discussed.

    We gather together and have fresh bread and honey and tea. We eat this small meal in memory of our Mother in Heaven. This might seem very strange to many readers, but I am here to say it is not ceremonial or ritualistic or strange in anyway. Imagine a group of women gathered around some teacups and bread (with really good butter and honey smeared on it). Someone says a prayer and we eat. Then we clear it away, turn on the music and dance. There are a few blessed women who have choreographed some dances reminiscent of Hebrew dances. Sometimes we just turn on the music and dance as we want individually. All these songs are about the Lord and the hand movements and even the direction we dance is all symbolic of the Lord.

    Sometimes afterward we pray over each other as we feel directed.

    There you have it. That is the honeycomb feast. You are invited.

    Now, to address some other concerns that Lynne brought up:
    At first five years ago, we felt that dressing in a blue skirt and a white shirt would be symbolic of CHRIST. White for purity and Blue for His priesthood. Now, women come in many colors and whatever skirt they want to put on. Its colorful and happy and lovely. Many of the original dancers still have their blue skirts.

    Men are not excluded. One time, even at my house, the men were there and watched us dance. I have even had my husband dance one with us. It was great. One time we had a Jewish dance instructor come and teach a large group of men and women and kids different steps and dances. Primarily and currently, however, this is done just by women. However, that does not mean that men and women will not be doing it in the future if the Lord would like.

    We had a dancing night with our daughters for the first time, very recently. I brought my 12-year old daughter to welcome her into a sisterhood and to give her another avenue to worship the Lord. We have nothing even close to the love and embrace that you feel on the dancing nights in the church for young women. My stoic daughter was overwhelmed with the spirit. Only once have I seen my daughter touched by the spirit. That night she had wave after wave come over her. This is very special to me and to share that out on this blog is difficult. That night was extremely important to me. This was not under the moon, it was in someone’s living room. We did not have any manifestations. We just felt complete love for one another and joy in worship.

    The phrase “changing their vibrational energy” was a syntactical attempt, IMO, to try to make the honeycomb sound all new age and weird. All of those who seek the Lord try to raise our vibrational energy through prayer, scripture study, meditation, taking the sacrament, and yep, even through dancing. Nothing too strange here.

    Well, I’ve spent about “55 minutes” answering the questions that I am aware I could answer as Lynne asked me to do. She wanted transparency about the honeycomb. I am being as transparent as I can without crossing the line into my sacred space. Please take “5 minutes” to consider what I have written and see if there is any fear or sin or idol worshipping in it.

    May the Lord guide us all. May we stop the contention and judgment. I don’t even know if I am going to the gathering yet….but I do know I won’t stop dancing for my God.

    Thanks for reading and thanks, Lynne, for discussing things with me today and being open to that conversation.

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    • I appreciated sincerely one woman’s clarification of what her Utah group does in the honeycomb dances. However, as she and I discussed, there are other groups, some members of which provided first hand information to me about the inclusion of Asenath and it was this information which generated my questions. It sounds like the actual dancing now planned at the Mesa has been dialed back to folk dancing and this is sure good to hear. Transparency in all points of the questions is welcome. Most of the questions come from my talks with Bret and would best be answered directly from him without any of my filters, which I hope he will provide.

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  30. To clarify Melanie’s mention of Rock in context of my question, Bret asked six of us to speak: Tim, Will Carter, Rock Waterman, Adrian Larsen, Jacqueline Olsen and myself. Right after Bret sent us the direct quote from Christ three of us withdrew for our own specific reasons, and copied each other in emails. Rock, Adrian and Jacqueline are still, last I heard, speakers, and have been heavily promoting the gathering. I did not intend to single out Rock. There was to be a 7th surprise keynote speaker, which I thought might be Denver, and asked Bret if Denver had been invited. My questions in this original post have been generated in first person communications in all cases. They are my own questions and I am sincerely hoping for real answers. I cannot attribute motive to any speaker with an active blog, that is between them and the Lord, but I do note some possible conflict of interest which elicited my original question. At this point it seems like a list of speakers and topics would be welcome, to clear the air and diffuse speculation.

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    • If you are sincerely hoping for real answers, why did you publicly ask the blogosphere, rather than privately ask the organizers, who actually have the real answers?

      You had to know your questions and the way you worded them would stir up contention. Tim certainly did. He even posted a meme about the Shits Storm Brewing, based on your post.

      Were you intending to stir up a Shit Storm when you publicly posted your accusations veiled as questions? Or was that just Tim’s interpretation of what he thought would happen?

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  31. It occurs to me that there has been a great deal of contention and jarrings manifest on this post.
    What if, instead of fear and accusations of impure motives and demanding of answers, we practiced the admonitions of the Savior:
    Persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, love unfeigned, kindness, pure knowledge which shall enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—and charity.
    Would the Master now say of us, as He did to the saints in 1834, that we “are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom; and Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself”?
    He want on to say to them that “in consequence of the transgressions of my people, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion”
    People, that was spoken almost 181 yrs ago. How long would you have that “little season” go on? Have we learned nothing?
    I know Marti to be a very honorable woman. I know Samantha to be a very honorable woman. I know “Another Voice” to be a very honorable woman.
    Cease to be fearful and come unto Christ! Learn His ways and walk in the light of His love and goodness. Time is short.
    James Russell Uhl

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  32. Looks like the Lords test has already been administered and noted by the spirit. Love or fear. Faith or doubt. Only two. Peace

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  33. I woke up this morning, without knowing that my friend “Another Voice” had responded to Lynne’s questions. I awoke to the words “IT IS ENOUGH” and knew that it was time to step forward and stop the craziness and the contention. I was not to disclose yesterday as things needed to play out for purposes I do yet understand. God is my witness, as He is yours.

    I am the “Utah woman” but I cannot take credit for being the founder. I admit I am a very weak and flawed woman. My only redeeming quality is that I love our Jesus, and our Mother and Father in Heaven and I love talking about all of them. I am no scholar, I have no college education …

    I am here to say that Lynne was given information that she chose to distort for reasons I do not know. Several women who have participated in the Honeycomb contacted Lynne and asked her to take the post down as it was not reflective of truth, but Lynn refused. All of us are mortals and we have different perceptions, beliefs, fears so I’m not here to judge or condemn Lynne. It was never our intention to ever do a Honeycomb on the Grand Mesa … or underneath the moon. However, the sun is symbolic of Father, the Moon symbolic of Mother and the stars are symbolic of their children … and every constellation is symbolic of Jesus’ mission. The sun and the moon are called the faithful witnesses of God …they are to remind us of our Creator.

    No matter what I write or explain, there will be those who claim I am deceived. And that’s okay. Because we are all on different levels of understanding and experiences. We are all in this school of learning and it is painful at times. Lynne, the most alarming thing I found in your description is your reference to Mother in Heaven as an entity. It breaks my heart for anyone who does not want to honor the mother of our spirits, the wife of Father, the mother of Jesus. The Honeycomb ceremony focuses on Jesus Christ … though in our prayers we thank God the Father for our Mother, that we are divine daughters of such a beautiful mother, and we are in awe that they allowed their Son, our Jesus, to come and die and pay for our sins and frailties. Nothing about the Honeycomb is about ritualistic pagan worship, but about honoring our Heavenly parents and Jesus. There are no set prayers and there are not set ways of doing things.

    I’m sure you are all curious as to how this ceremony came to be … so here you go.

    After reading a certain book about the Second Comforter and having the author in my home several times I too hungered for Him, our Redeemer and Master. That book opened up a reality I had never considered and I found myself having to stop several times on a page and repenting. The hunger to know Jesus was powerful. But with desire to know God, the adversary also makes himself known. I had an experience where I was attacked by an evil spirit … I even had to have my bishop come to my home to clear it. It was obvious I was on a path and the adversary was not happy. After this attack I was asking in prayer what I could do to protect myself … and immediately I saw the word “honeycomb” and a “beehive”. Never before in my life had I ever seen with my spiritual eyes and I was quite shocked. I did a very precursory search and found some quotes by Hugh Nibley re: honey and bees and concluded that what I was being shown is that knowing who I am, a divine daughter of God, is my protection. But then I was instructed to do a 21 day fast along with temple attendance … every day but Sunday I was to go to the temple. At the end of this fast the Lord told me that I was to gather six other women (7 total) and that we were to dance unto Him and dance with scarves. I said seriously Jesus? You want to me do what? You see I am an amputee, and even before the amputation I was restricted in all physical activities … so I never had the opportunity to feel the free-flowing and beautiful grace that women are born to do. I immediately called two people I knew who had received the Second Comforter for a second witness. Both told me yes, that this was a restoration of ancient dance and that Joseph did not live long enough to restore it. AT this point in my progression I read scriptures and LDS authors but I was not a scholar but the Lord put me on a path that he would tell me something and I would have to research it out. For instance, he told me we needed to be dressed in blue skirts and white blouses. Well, okay, why? And then I found out blue and white are the colors of priesthood. He said there had to be seven women .. why not five or six or three — because I then learned seven is all about spiritual completion. Then he told me we need to have a meal at the dance and that it needed to be bread, butter, honey and rose hip tea. Rose hip tea? Why rose hip tea? I had never heard of rose hip tea. It wasn’t until years later when a young woman attended and had just read a book by Diana Webb regarding the Forgotten Women of the Bible. She discussed the fact that Asenath ate the honeycomb made from roses. You see God is in all the details of everyone’s life and Jesus loves to honor those who love and honor him. It is my belief, that because Joseph and Asenath are the parents of Manessah and Ephraim, and they have stewardship over this Covenant land of America, and since most of us are from that lineage, that Jesus was pointing us to our ancestors. Because the Jesus I know, loves to point us to all people who have come before us so that we recognize their struggles and their challenges. I believe the reason he asked me to do this has to do with his sense of humor … asking an amputee to begin a dance group … It is not a beautiful thing to see me dance, but I take comfort that the Lord knows my spirit is graceful.

    Since this is not a secret group, it is a gathering of women (and sometimes men -but they are not as comfortable dancing as women are) who worship through dance, I am happy to send out papers that explain the importance of dance and worship and honey and honeycomb and such. You can either choose to find truth or you can choose to find fault … it is between you and our God.

    I am regretful that many of you have had the wrong impression about women dancing unto the Lord. But you see we are all Israelites and it is in the blood of Israel to dance … May I leave you with this … anything, absolutely anything that is from God and is good will be mimicked by the adversary. He will try to come and take ownership and defile and adulterate it.

    God bless all.

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    • I am sure because of my posts, people think I am being a judgmental hard-ass. But I want to let you know that I appreciate your response here. It was reasoned, detailed, and straight-forward. And that was all I was really asking for.

      Query: Since this is in memory of Aseneth leaving behind paganism to be with her husband. Have you and the other ladies left behind the pagan cultural traditions that have developed in Christianity/Mormonism and returned to the Law of Yahweh found within the Torah of Moses?

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      • What God has laid out before us is not a restoration to the Torah, but the beginnings of a restoration of the faith of the Fathers: Adam, Seth, Melchizedek, Abraham, etc. The Torah is part of it . . . but that was the law given to a people who rejected their opportunity to meet the Lord face to face.

        I’m not content with the law given to a people who rejected the presence of their Lord. I’m looking for what the Lord gave to Adam and Eve.

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        • Read carefully what I said… “The Law of Yahweh found within the Torah given to Moses”

          Many parts of the Torah were a restoration of the ancient laws and holy days given to Adam from the beginning.

          So certainly the “Restoration of all things” consists of those laws also.

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        • Well until any of you can produce an actual covenant with a body of law from Adam and Eve, I will stick with the scriptures. Again, iniquity portrayed as holiness if offensive to God. I am tired of the gospel of make it up as we go along to give hugs and get warm fuzzies in the moonlight of pagan sun and moon god worship.

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    • Thanks so much for your comment and info on the dance and Asenath. I was aware of her (Asenath’s conversion), but not the details you provided. I also appreciate that your comment was made in love and peace to stem the tide of unpleasantness this post has unleashed. I will have fun doing my own research on this interesting topic myself.
      Thanks again. Ruth

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  34. To add one thing to the above comment, I regret that Samantha and Bret and Adrian and MinorityofOne and others have taken so many hits from everyone. I repent that I have caused any hurt or offense. The sacred dance is nothing more than dancing to Jesus … we have sometimes done Indian dancing (as a woman who has come is Native American who taught us, sometimes we have done Jewish dancing. It’s a variety of things, but it is definitely not pagan or satanic).

    Can we now get to the important stuff of forgiving and acting with love and not hang onto fear and judgment? Anyone that would like to go to the reunion but cannot afford, as has been stated by Bret and Samantha, can come as others are making a financial contribution to help others. You just need to make your needs known so that others can have the opportunity to bless.

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    • Marti, thank you so much for sharing what you have. This is beautiful, and it’s so good to finally be able to read the witnesses of those who have actually danced before the Lord, and compare them with those who are decrying it. I have so much peace now, about this whole thing, and I’m glad we’re going to get to meet, finally!

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  35. Annalea please. The bluemoon honeycomb dance of the sugarplum fairies to heavenly mommy is not dancing to the Lord but to a pagan goddess. Huge difference!

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  36. AMEN, to Marti’s comments! (-and MinorityofOne, God bless you for your gifted understanding)

    Wow. I find it SO interesting that there is so much ‘fuss’ stirred-up whenever anyone even attempts to recognize that there is a female side (-ahem, HALF) to ALL things, whether natural or spiritual.

    Humanity’s collective penchant for patriarchy has pretty effectively squashed all mention of the Female within history and the spiritual record (with those few, elaborated exceptions, above). When we elevate the male at the expense of the female, we lose the potential for a complete, and REAL, understanding of the wholeness that is. The great “I AM” is in reality an even greater “WE ARE” -One in spirit, in purpose, and manifest in a myriad of earthly examples that we poor humans are free to observe all around us. Are we not to take our cues from what we see? BALANCE, is manifest all around us -unless, of course, we manage to screw it up by our own actions.

    Take a look around at this great creation we all enjoy and tell me why our Mother should not be celebrated as well?!

    I personally think that the denial and subjugation of the feminine has been the MOST effective tool the Adversary has employed to keep us all off-kilter when it comes to our ability to make our way back into the presence of our Parents. Once we let go of patriarchy and replace it with the inclusion of ALL of Devine Nature, I believe we will be better placed to receive ALL light and knowledge -not just the portion we have allowed ourselves to this point.

    So let’s dance. Let’s sing and shout “Hosanna”! and give our glory and love over to the WHOLE of God. Telling, and re-telling, only half of the story has gotten us into nothing but trouble for thousands of years. Those who seek to stifle what is real will find themselves humbled and penitent at the Throne. ~And just who do you think it will be that will reach down to touch their tear-stained faces?! Yup. There is a NEED for both male and female all right.

    I’m ALL for ‘awakening’ on MANY different levels. In a strange way, I think the convoluted expressions of ALL of us on this thread are but symptoms of the birth-pangs of a much greater awakening in process, which I welcome with all of my heart. Let’s move forward with Love, shall we?

    Peace to All.

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  37. I just finished reading the post and all the comments and I must say it was all highly entertaining! All those warnings and accusations and distortions by people who just KNEW that group up on the mesa would be up to no good reminded me of a non-Mormon friend of mine some forty years ago who desperately tried to make me understand what REALLY goes on during a temple wedding. The Twelve apostles, you see, all take turns having sex with the bride, which is necessary to sanctify her or some such nonsense.

    After an hour of arguing with my friend over this, he finally conceded that “maybe they don’t do it that way any more, but that’s the way they used to conduct temple marriages.” And only in the Salt Lake temple, by the way.

    Well, Marti Grobecker and “Another Voice” chimed in to set the record straight, and that ended the controversy. So that’s that.

    At least so I thought. Rob Kay simply will not relent. I am an admirer of Rob’s. I consider him a friend and I think he’s really informed on a lot of things. But I just have to say this time: Rob, Buddy, let it go. You’re coming off as Pharisaical. There will be no pagan rituals at the retreat and there never was any threat of such shenanigans going on. This is all a non-issue, a mountain out of a molehill.

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    • Alan, I appreciate your response, but I am sure ancient Israel thought the golden calf was harmless too.

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    • I also do not see how saying dancing naked in the moonlight with the honeycomb dance is wrong makes me a pharisee? Not to mention people saying they expect the “goddess” to manifest her self in the moon? Seriously? Okay if saying that makes me a pharisee call me Paul!

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  38. I’m old enough to remember when the existence of a Mother in Heaven was a given. She was openly discussed in church, seminary, institute and frequently during general conference. (A couple of LDS scholars once compiled a partial list containing many of those mentions from the conference pulpit and published them in BYU Studies here: https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=8669 )

    So I was astonished last month when some reader to my blog scoffed at someone for believing in her. I must have missed the memo because I thought that was still a valid, accurate belief among all the Saints. Apparently I was wrong. That teaching was news to this guy, as it appears to be to several on this thread. I guess a whole generation has been raised in the church without it.

    Bu the way, there is a big difference between “worshiping” our mother in heaven (as some have accused), and celebrating her or even simply recognizing her existence.

    Last year Connie and I were privileged to attend Sunday services in the Kirtland temple. Since it was was Mother’s day, the whole meeting was devoted to the theme of our heavenly mother. It was interesting to see three female speakers on the stand, and not one member of the bishopric up there at all. That might have disturbed me in the past when I was an unabashed Brethrenite, but it didn’t bother me now. I’d have to say that meeting was one of the top ten spiritual experiences of my entire life. I wept like a baby the entire time. My wife, Connie, was asked to give the closing prayer, and that prayer was amazing.

    But guess what? Connie did NOT pray directly to the mother. Why not? because the scriptures teach us to pray to the father in the name of the son. That does not diminish the mother’s importance in our lives and in our hearts, nor does it relegate her to some kind of outsider status.

    When the ancient prophets derided the people for lighting incense to the mother goddess, that was because they were not lighting it to the real goddess. They were honoring a false goddess. At various times God’s people fell into the Egyptian habit of worshiping Isis, at other times they lit their incense to the planet Saturn, or to the goddess Venus. In those days Saturn, Venus, and Mars were all quite visible in the sky overhead, so it was tempting to create creation myths that included those gigantic orbs. One of the problems with worshiping the planets was that the goddess was said to have an incestuous relationship with her son, the planet mars. Not conducive to the kind of respect due our real mother.

    Just as the people were chided for seeking after false male gods, it was the false female gods that provoked the ire of the Father. I know of no instance where God lost his cool just because the people wanted to get to know their real mother better. The Mother in Heaven was a lost doctrine until Joseph Smith restored her to prominence. It would be a shame if we allowed ourselves to forget about her again.

    Here’s a suggestion for you doubters: you know that tender primary song by Janice Kapp Perry-I think it’s called “A child’s prayer” where the lyrics are “Heavenly Father…are you really there?”

    Some quiet night when you’re lying in bed and wondering if you really do have a heavenly mother as well as a heavenly father, why don’t you quietly sing those words aloud, only this time ask your heavenly Mother if She is really there? Then notice the feeling that washes over you. If you decide what you are feeling at that moment is satanic, I’ll give you a dollar.

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  39. I would have thought the reason for Denver Snuffer not being present in Colorado was self-evident. Despite Denver’s best efforts to remain under the radar, there is a cult of personality grown up around him. This retreat, rather than being a simple reunion among friends, would have devolved into a crowd demanding further instruction from Denver Snuffer. Nothing else would have taken place. I love Denver Snuffer. I am honored he calls me his friend. But unfortunately, through no fault of his own, Denver Snuffer has achieved celebrity status, and this event could not have been a meeting of equals. It would have been all about Denver Snuffer, and those who criticize us and accuse us of wanting to “start our own church” would latch onto this event as proof that something untoward was in the air.

    I know nothing about Denver Snuffer being “uninvited” as Lynne suggests. But my guess is he never planned to come in the first place because he knew this thing would be in danger of becoming all about him.

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  40. Well Rob, if there’s gonna be naked ladies dancing in the moonlight, I’m definitely glad I’m gonna be there.

    But I’m curious why you thought that might occur. Who are these people expecting that to happen, as well as the those anticipating “the goddess” manifesting herself? I’m sure it wasn’t the organizers. It seems Bret and Samantha who are getting the blame for all these supposed shenanigans they never promised. Isn’t spreading rumor and hearsay spoken poorly of somewhere in the old testament?

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    • Hell, now I wanna dance.

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    • Perhaps you need to take the time to actually read some of the earlier posts where those have talked about these things. What else are we to think since none of you can answer honest and in a straight forward manner any of Lynne’s questions. Was she not one of the original speakers? Is she not speaking from first hand experience? Interesting that the more questions that are asked you guys become more evasive and angry.

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      • Rob, you ask of Lynne, ” Was she not one of the original speakers? Is she not speaking from first hand experience?”

        You do realize, don’t you Rob, that this event has not yet taken place?

        How then could Lynne be speaking from first hand experience about an event she has not experienced? Because she was asked to be one of the speakers? I’ve been asked to be one of the speakers, too, but all that means is when I show up I’m going to speak. It didn’t make me privy to any planning or organizing.

        Hence, the reason Lynne is asking all these questions: she is repeating wild rumors and half-truths she has heard might be taking place at an event she has absolutely nothing to do with. How then could she glean any first-hand experience about it?

        You talk about being angry and evasive, yet you still haven’t answered my questions directed at you as to where you got these wild ideas about women dancing naked under the full moon.

        I can only WISH such shenanigans were planned for this event, Rob, because I have a particular affinity for naked ladies, dancing or otherwise. But I’m going to have to be satisfied with much less licentiousness this time around because no dancing naked ladies are on the agenda for this Retreat.

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      • Does Lynn have first hand knowledge of what? I can tell you right now that if she actually had first hand knowledge and experience of actually attending a Honeycomb, half the questions that were asked would not have to have been asked here. She would have had first hand knowledge that your assumptions are so off base that they aren’t even in the ballpark.

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  41. (note: I have not read all the comments, I only got through maybe half and felt I needed to respond because of what had already been posted. I do not usually post, ever, but here it goes.)

    The only question that should be asked of God is, if each of us individually should attend. To ask any other question is confusing the issue.

    Sturgis is NOT “approved” by God, yet “someone” attends that gathering. Some families are told to still attend LDS Sunday meetings which have Primary or YW age children, because there are still worthwhile friends etc. in that ward while another family is told NOT to attend because they do not have children (or some other reason known by God) and can worship at home more effectively are BOTH getting the right answer for THEIR family.

    To say that just because one does not get the same answer as the next person, that they are following false spirits is not correct. Each of us have our own life experiences we need to have and the Lord is very good at tailoring the “approved” events we are to engage in for each of us. And we may be asked to attend an event that is unapproved (Sturgis for example) for any number of reasons unknown to us, but only known to God. So to ask any other question is confusing because it then brings in other factors which we may not have any right to know or reason for God to give us an answer to. It might not be our stewardship to know if God is working through Bret or if it is even “approved”! We need only to know if we should attend. Do all the events that will be going on there, (organized, in private or public) need to be “approved” by God, or could that be an overwhelming question to ask. Can you imagine if you asked that about Sturgis!!! That might be immaterial to God, He might have completely other motives for asking you to attend an event or gathering.

    Simply asking if “I” should attend for my best and highest good is MY answer and it will not certainly be the next persons answer, because based on the experiences we each need to have the answer will vary. Just because we get an answer not to attend one thing, does not mean it is bad. It could be timing, a conflict only God knows exists and maybe another thing is a priority. Maybe we could be in the right place at the right time and the wrong place at the wrong time. God can help us determine that for each of us.

    Even if the event is “approved by God” is the wrong question in determining our attendance. We need to ask if we are to be there and obey. We should not worry or judge or condemn or question what anyone else is doing. We are not going to all get the same answer! Just obey what we are asked to do, and to not be swayed in our answer based on someone else’s answer- and the experience gained will be for our good based on what God needs us to do.

    On the topic of dancing. Maybe the question should be the same for this gathering. Unless you have attended one first hand, it is engaging in gossip, assumptions, judgments and is open to someone else’s interpretation, when it might be something you need to attend in person to grasp the whole picture. It would be like asking someone to tell you about a sport game that went into overtime compared to attending it in person to get the feel of the whole game! No matter how or in what detail they try to explain the game to you, it is a futile effort compared to experiencing the game in person.

    I can speak from experience and have the perspective of the honeycomb dancing from the beginning. The intent was: to remind women of their femininity, their beauty and God given gifts as women for one. Two- In a competitive world, we needed to be reminded of creation and the unity that can exist in a male dominate world and not to compete, but to see how we can become one and support one another in our God given roles. Balance, unity and love between male and female will have to emerge on a grand scale if we are ever to be a people ready to be selected for Zion. 3-Praise and worship of our Lord is at the core of the entire gathering of women.
    Praise. Worship. Creation. Balance. Femininity.

    As with any endeavor, whether purposed by God or not, there will be setbacks. Just because you are given a task to exercise our spiritual muscles with, be it a tithing experiment, a dance group, a retreat or a charter school, and forge ahead asking God along the way to see if we are heading in the right direction, He will let the experiment unfold to give us the experience. We all need tasks to give us the experience and God will provide the medium. But it may not be perfect in it’s execution. The assignment might be of God, but not the execution done perfectly. He allows us the latitude in that. Men have not been excluded, but the original intent was to dance as women and the vision from the beginning was shown to include men, but that has only just barely started to be realized because of the men’s desire to be united with their wives in the purpose put forth. Timing is everything.

    The intent of ones heart is what we should be looking at, and I think it is what God is looking at also. The Honeycomb has not been perfect, adjustments have been made to correct our mistakes, haste, and lack of understanding at the beginning. But the music, the dancing and each aspect is with the intent to praise and worship the Lord who’s sacrifice and example are given for us to follow and to whom we owe all our honor and praise! The scriptures give many examples of praise and worship, and many of them include dance. It is a form of praise and worshiping the Lord.

    Ask. Look on the intent of anyone’s heart in any endeavor each of us undertake, not in our imperfect execution, and be forgiving of each others weakness.
    “Become” with each experience we are exposed to and allow it to change us, whether the receiver or the doer. Do as He would do.

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  42. Lynne, I’m particularly intrigued by your questions 9, 10, and 11 since they appear to be aimed at your concerns regarding Yours Truly:

    9. “What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering and listening to a featured speaker who has an active internet blog where they advertise and promote the gathering at which they themselves are scheduled to be a featured speaker?”

    So it’s wrong to somehow talk up this retreat among readers who are likely to take an interest in it? How else would some of them even learn about it? How else was this shindig to be adequately promoted other than on sympathetic websites? The few Remnant oriented Facebook sites are unknown to most of my readers, and even then they are closed or secret.

    You bet I want to advertise this thing! Since I reside clear out here in Northern California, I see this reunion as probably my only chance to meet some of the people I only know through the internet. I promoted it as “a reunion among friends who have not yet met.” I certainly see nothing wrong with my helping to put the word out so my friends can find out about it and meet me there.

    Besides, who says you have to spend your time and money to see me speak? I’m scheduled for first thing Friday evening, when most folks will not have arrived yet. I expect most families will only be able to make it for Saturday, so they’ll miss me completely anyway. So you could have just popped in on Saturday yourself if seeing me yammer on would cause you such distress.

    Besides, Lynne, YOU are the one who let that cat out of the bag; I never said a word about being scheduled as a speaker, either on my blog or elsewhere. And for good reason. Bret didn’t want any part of this to be about specific personalities. If he did, he would have put me on the roster for Saturday when there will be a bigger house. Did you miss the point? This is a simple get-together for fellow believers in Christ. No celebrity speakers, which is the entire reason Denver Snuffer isn’t booked for it. The only thing my readers were aware of was that I planned to be there and hoped to meet them. No one was told I would be speaking, and anyway I don’t see how that would influence anybody to show up one way or the other.

    10. “Is it possible that they may increase in status among their own blog followers, and attract even more followers as a result of speaking at the Remnant Reunion?”

    How would that work? By advertising this thing on my blog, people who don’t read my blog would come to see me at a potluck dinner in Colorado and that would magically provide me with more readers? It would make better sense if I stayed home and had someone there pass out flyers advertising my blog. THAT is the way to get more readers to my blog: advertise myself somewhere OTHER THAN my blog. The people reading my blog already know about me. As to whether I might increase in status by showing up at the reunion, this is the dream I have hoped and prayed for every day of my life. Status and followers, Baby! That’s what I’m lookin’ for!

    But seriously, you actually think there’s a chance I’ll attract more followers and increase in status by speaking at the reunion? Have you ever heard me speak on a podcast, Lynne? I constantly stutter, I stammer, I ramble, and I lose my train of thought. I doubt my “status” will increase with anybody after they get a load of me.

    11. “If so, does this fit any definitions of priestcraft?”

    Whuuuuut?!

    Showing up at a potluck dinner and speaking for free entails possible priestcraft? This isn’t general conference, Lynne, where the speakers make their livings doing priestcraft. Did you forget there is no admission fee for the Reunion? The definition of Priestcraft means preaching for money. Show me the box office receipts after this thing is over and we’ll talk about whether I’m guilty of priestcraft. Or did you think someone pays me for writing my blog? Show me where to find this guy, will ya?

    The way I see it, all of the concerns in your entire piece can be answered just by resolving your double question in number 23:

    “Will the spirit, approval and protection of God be over this gathering?”

    -Well, that remains to be seen, doesn’t it? We’ll let you know how it went after we’re done.

    “If so, how do I personally reconcile all of the above questions?”

    That’s the beauty of it, Lynne. YOU don’t HAVE to reconcile anything! The only thing you get to determine is whether God laid it on your heart to attend. If not, you can assume God has different plans for you than for those upon whose hearts he DID manifest His promptings. You don’t need to worry one single minute about the rest of us. Your job is over once you’ve made YOUR choice.

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  43. You know, the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced some folks were scared off by the wording “sacred” when they heard about a “sacred dance” scheduled.

    We Mormons are a parochial group, with little exposure to the mostly benign, totally innocuous differences in other religious cultures. Has anyone here ever danced to Hava Nagila at a Jewish wedding? That’s a sacred dance. The lyrics translate to “Let us rejoice.” It’s a religious song, a sacred song, but also a FUN song. I’ve had more fun dancing to Hava Nagila at Jewish weddings than I ever did doing the Hokey Pokey at Mormon receptions. And I LOVE doing the Hokey Pokey.

    It’s just that often sacred dances are faster and even more fun.

    When I get to the mesa and join in the dancing, I expect to have a good time doing it. Dancing is joyful. Dancing in a circle to the “sacred” dance we’ll be invited to join in at the mesa will be just as enjoyable to me as dancing in a circle to Hava Nagila. I expect they’re related, since Lamanite music is descended from the Hebrew.

    Why anyone would read anything sinister into such an experience as a joyful DANCE, is beyond me. I mean, for heaven’s sake, people! This isn’t voodoo mumbo jumbo we’re talking about!

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    • yes Rock I have danced at a Jewish Wedding. But we dance to the God of Israel not a pagan goddess. Try and couch it how you will, but you are just propagating the sins of Ancient Israel and idolatry. Celebration to the true God is one thing celebration to a pagan goddess or a as a ritual to summon her is disgusting.

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      • Thanks, Rock and Melonie,for all your comments. Once again, Rob, your post reflects the fact that you haven’t taken into account anyone’s comments or you just don’t care. Multiple people here who participate in the dances have stated they are to worship our Lord. But you believe Lynne’s extraordinary descriptions of something she has never attended and you add on to the clamor by throwing in nudity, fairy costumes, and pagan goddess worship, just to stir the pot. Well, I’m selling tickets to Robs combo Nutcracker Midsummer Nights Dream up on the Mesa. He’s directing.

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  44. Again, I ask you, Rob, who is planning to summon the goddess? I ain’t heard any such thing in the plans. Maybe you’ve heard from someone who plans to strip naked and howl at the moon while at the Mesa, but such goings on are not on the docket. So why do you insist on assuming it’s a wacko Mormon version of Burning Man? (Which, by the way, I would be pretty keen on.)

    Do we expect some infiltrators or agents provocateurs to show up and try and throw a wrench into things? That’s a very real possibility. It wouldn’t surprise me if some kook decided to map out stakes for the new Zion there on the Delta, or try to rouse the troops to gather pitchforks and take over Temple Square. Someone will likely show up and advocate for polygamy, or claim to be The One Mighty and Strong.

    If so, we will lovingly escort him away from the main body, or otherwise remind him we are not starting a movement or meeting here to discuss cleansing the Church. The thing is, Rob, this is nothing more than a loose gathering of friends. Any particular gospel hobby someone might have is not the work of the group, because there is no “group.” So quit getting worked up about it. If, after it’s over, you hear reports of some of us donning Voodoo masks while re instituting the Council of Fifty, we’ll talk about it then. Until that happens, why don’t you relax and let the rest of us have our little potluck dinner without you engaging in fear mongering about it?

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  45. If I may ask,

    Why is not the sole word on this gathering “go if you wanna, don’t go if you don’t wanna, and let everyone mind their own business?”

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  46. My heart hearkens to a younger day, a more innocent time ….hmm?! Does “truth” really have to come across a pulpit, from some “chosen one”??

    “From the oldest of times, people danced for a number of reasons. They danced in prayer… or so that their crops would be plentiful… or so their hunt would be good. And they danced to stay physically fit… and show their community spirit. And they danced to celebrate.” And that is the dancing we’re talking about. Aren’t we told in Psalm 149 “Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song. Let them praise His name in the dance”? And it was King David – King David, who we read about in Samuel – and what did David do? What did David do?

    …What *did* David do?

    “David danced before the Lord with all his might… leaping and dancing before the Lord.” [smacks table in front of Reverend Moore] … *Leaping* and *dancing*.

    Ecclesiastes assures us… that there is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to laugh… and a time to weep. A time to mourn… and there is a time to dance. And there was a time for this law, but not anymore. See, this is our time to dance. It is our way of celebrating life. It’s the way it was in the beginning. It’s the way it’s always been. It’s the way it should be now.

    LOL!! 😉 Love you all … Marti. You are beautiful 🙂 One experience … watching you dance, looking deep into my eyes, will never leave my heart.

    I say, CROSS THE COUNTY LINE and HOLD YOUR PROM!!!

    Christ leads you … dance!!

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  47. You see, I love to dance. And the Lord has enabled me in amazing ways to be able to do so. You can’t believe the things the Lord has taught me through dancing. Beautiful things that He wants me to know–sacred things that he wants me to know. He teaches them to me through dance, because He knows that I love to dance.

    I have no doubt about the sacredness of dance. The Lord loves dance too, because it is an eternal way to display many sacred emotions.

    I can’t wait to learn more about this dancing that we will do on the Mesa.

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  48. It is really cool to see how someone seeking to turn people against something actually leads to curiosity, and then to the truth. If anyone is scared off and decides not to go to grand mesa, and you have already reserved a hotel room, please let me know if you are going to cancel your reservation. Maybe my wife and I will go. I will get my spear, loin cloth and peyote and be ready to join in the festivities when the darkness gathers under the moon.

    Seriously though if anyone wants to build a sweat lodge I would be down to try one some time:)

    Albert Einstein
    “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    Too many squirrels judging the fish around here.

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  49. I want to thank Lynne for posting this and for the two women that offered details about what is involved in a honeycomb dance. I realize comments can come off being harsh, but when I first read this post I first tried to see it from where Lynne was coming from. I did not think she was trying to be negative, I just thought she wanted to share her concerns and questions she had. I do not know the circumstances behind anything, so it did make me wonder.

    I have seen on other social media site where a person(s) might ask poignant questions that could be considered taboo, critical or something like that and I see people seeking to understand that person and answer with love and respect. However I have also seen on these same sites if someone else says things or asks things I noticed they do not get the same respect but more of a “what’s your problem”, type of thing. It’s like only some people are allowed to bring things up or point them out and if someone else does that, then it is accusatory and horrible…..I don’t feel that is right.

    It is so easy to misunderstand things and to know what someone’s intent really is. From reading the comments, I see people contacted Lynne to explain about the dance and she responded that this post was from “Her filters”…..We ALL have filters…..and some things just are not going to jive with what we at the moment believe! It is easy to say to Lynne if she doesn’t like it or doesn’t want to go then don’t go…..I have seen countless times where people have a LONG discussion about things to help sort things thru…I am sure even when we don’t want to do harm but be able to share our thoughts, harm or hurt may happen. This is something I guess we need to learn how to handle and each go to the Lord for whatever it is that we need.
    Again I have seen where some people are patted on the back and encouraged to ask questions and other times it is a smack down on a person for bringing questions up.

    Yes, I do believe that the Lord would have some people go and others not. It is the same for just about anything. I do not begrudge Lynne for this blog post. I think we should all be mature enough to know we need to take ALL things to the Lord and seek HIS counsel on what He wants from us. I fail at so many things, and I am SO aware of my weaknesses and I am trying the best I can and I believe that most of us are also trying the best we can…..

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  50. Well, there went another hour of my life I’ll never get back. I should’ve just skipped to Log’s comment and been done with it.

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    • Ha ha! Yep, John. As usual Log distills the controversy to its essence: Go if you wanna go, don’t go if you don’t wanna go. And everyone mind their own business about it.

      That, I would say is the key to a Zion society. But our natural man wants to supervise the actions of others, that’s why suppressing the ego is so essential.

      Do what you want as long as it hurts no one else. if someone else thinks you’re doing it wrong, they’re doing it wrong by saying so.

      At its core, the religion founded through Joseph Smith was a libertarian one. it’s been struggling to get back there ever since. I gotta remember to start living the “pure” Mormonism again.

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  51. Minority of One, I’m with you on the sweat lodge idea. If someone cares to bring a portable sweat lodge with them to the Mesa, count me in.

    And don’t try that Porta-Potty trick on me, you guys. I’m not falling for that one again.

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  52. This posting and all of the comments have been an interesting, though disheartening, exercise to watch.

    First of all, YUM. Warm bread, butter, and honey. Makes me wish I was a sister. You know what it is even better? Just spread some of that honeycomb directly onto the warm bread and skip the butter. It is a little piece of heaven in the mouth. Truth.

    I have to agree with Log, so many hard words and hard feelings, when it can be easier on everyone to just let it be. Go if you wanna go, or are being directed to, and everyone else should tend to their own business.

    rockwaterman1 and minorityofone,

    Would you consider that your own words, in trying to dismiss (or resolve) some of the concerns being expressed here, and while attempting to use humor and wit to do so, fell into the same trap as the OP and several of the more vocal commenters? The somewhat flippant use of voodoo, voodoo masks, spear, loincloth, peyote, and sweat lodge, in a way, cast the same unspoken judgements about something that other peoples and cultures hold sacred. It is interesting that you ended up doing something very similar in nature to those you were correcting about the events scheduled on the Mesa and their notions of pagans, dancing, honeycomb, and goddess worship.

    It is possible this is not what you meant to do, and if not, I ask for your forgiveness for bringing this up. However, it seems false to ask others to respect your desires and wishes (to meet, feast, dance and worship) sincerely -without judgement – when in your asking and explaining you show the same disrespect and lack of understanding to yet another (third and fourth) group of people. Please consider offering the same respect to the cultures, practices, and peoples you off-handedly used to illustrate your points. Else what’s the reason of explaining your reason?

    Rock, I did appreciated your comments and clarifications.

    MinorityOfOne, if you are sincere about a sweat lodge, or similar practices, drop me an email. I have a few pointers gained through experience that might find helpful.

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  53. “And the Lord said, whereunto then shall I liken this generation? And to what are they like?
    They are like unto children sitting in the market place, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.”
    Luke 7:31-32

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  54. Well, the fun and silliness provided by some of these outrageous comments seems to be winding down, as these things ultimately do. Guess it’s time we got the last word about it. So to that end, I refer you all to Adrian Larsen’s response to the original post, which he answers question by question.

    To anyone concerned about getting to the truth, you owe it to yourselves to read this definitive response, so we can put all this craziness to rest.

    https://latterdaycommentary.com/2015/04/16/reunion-responses/#comments

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  55. I think Lynne’s ultimate point is nobody wants to feel summoned by claims to authority from someone whose authority is questionable.

    But I could be wrong.

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  56. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” Nietzsche

    Thank God we have “right” brain … we oughta love that we are such complex manifestations of the eternal 🙂

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  57. Somebody just asked me if Jules is now one of the speakers since she is heavily promoting it on her blog, and is also promoting her blog, and was so obviously outraged at the priestcraft question. I am not on LDSFF and have no knowledge of that discussion, and obviously I am out of the current gathering agenda loop so I certainly can’t answer that question.

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  58. Hello!

    I am one of those crazy people that attended this reunion. Because I was present, I can assure anyone who is wondering that #12, #13, #14, didn’t happen. In fact I would have been amazed to see what was mentioned above happen, considering that it was around 25 degrees on the Mesa the entire time. I stayed in one of the cabins. There were no blue or white clothes, no head jewels or dancing on the Mesa, no honeycomb blessing, nothing like that.

    The closest thing that happened to what you said would happen was a lady talked about music, dance and how those things can be used for worship. She briefly talked about vibrations and frequency. Which I thought was unnecessary but thought provoking in a secular an scientific sense.

    After she spoke, men, women, and children, all in different colored clothes, got up on a small stage in a high school and did a very simple and fun dance. People laughed, smiled, and it broke the ice.

    The message that I received from the first day was insight on the baptism of fire. A topic I have been pondering of late.

    The second day there were a few speakers then men and women split for a couple hours. The men upon the Mesa in the freezing cold and the women in the valley warm and cozy in a building. This day was filled with symbolism for me and the spirit of love and fellowship was strong.

    After the separate meetings we all met for hot chocolate and a testimony meeting on the Mesa. People talked about their journey to finding Christ and tears were shed.

    The third day I had the most profound spiritual experience of my life so far. We all met in the sunny valley for another testimony meeting and partook of the sacrament. Since I’m a troubled soul, this was the first time in well over a year that I have partaken of the sacrament. There were a few speakers then we all gathered in a circle and shouted praises to our Lord. On the last shout, as I put my hands down an overwhelming and completely consuming joy came over me. My eyes couldn’t even begin to hold back the tears of bliss I felt at that moment. It was so powerful that it took my breath away. All I wanted to do was embrace everyone there and tell them I loved them. My sister, seeing the state I was in, ran over and hugged me.

    I have never at anytime before this felt that. It changed my heart and I desire to follow Christ more now than I did before. Among other very personal things that happened I can honestly say I came out a better person.

    Now I can’t speak for everyone and I did encounter people who were more like conspiracy theorists who would believe anything. There were some talks that were weird and seemingly unimportant to the subject of salvation. Neither do I think that this event or group will result in Zion but at least they put in an effort to gather and fellowship each other. I definitely came out of it with new friends. The overall feel was that people truly wanted to come to Christ.

    The vibe I get from this post is one of criticism and judgment. It hinders independent thinking and discernment. Saying that because you were prompted not to go makes it some evil, acid bingeing, ritualistic party in the mountains. That if Denver isn’t going neither should we. As if Denver is the man we should follow. Don’t get me wrong I believe his message is from God but he even warns against what you said in #2, #3, and #4.

    This is the first I’ve come across your blog and I’m rather disappointed. I read blogs to learn what others have to say and hopefully pull some truth out of it. This was uninspiring and provokes contention. If your other posts are similar I will not be reading them.

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