A Time of Reflection, Part Six


Establishing Zion

“The Book of Mormon, as an offered covenant to the gentiles, is an essential step required for the gentiles to become numbered with the remnant and obtain the right to inherit the promised land. If it is not received as a covenant by the gentiles, they have no right to be here on this land or on any other land of promise.”

“Zion and the New Jerusalem are a place, occupied by covenant people, and not something an individual can be or become. People who gather there will all need to be individually redeemed, individually penitent, individually connected to God, but will only belong to the community if they belong to the covenant and are of one heart and one mind and have all things in common between and among them.”

Source: https://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/

IndependenceTempleSign

Zion Will Not Be In Missouri

“I do not think Zion will initially be where people think it will. I do not think Zion will be at all what people think it will be. Nor do I think people are at all ready in our current circumstances to begin to learn what Zion will require; what standards of conduct will be required; what covenants will need to be assumed to establish Zion.

“I do not think Zion will be an institutional enterprise. The angels will be the ones responsible for that gathering. (See D&C 77: 11, Mark 13: 27.) This presents an apparent impediment to those who either don’t believe angels minister to mankind, or who believe they only minister to church leaders, or who think them possible, but have never been administered personally by them.”

Source: https://denversnuffer.com/2012/02/zion/

the-watchers-timeline

The image above is from G.aslem‘s timeline for the events of the last days. He is one of the few who dares to put dates on prophesied events in spite of the fact that all who have done so in the past have been disappointed and embarrassed when they fail to come to pass in the time-frame they have expected. I don’t believe in placing dates on future events, especially in light of Matt 24:36. Although I write much about the events of the last days, I have never felt it wise to put a date on something the Lord never did.

“Zion has not begun in an organized city-form and could not do so at the moment. Some of what would be required to establish Zion may have been returned, but only in the most incipient form at present, and not such that it can stand on its own. If the hounds of hell have been released to balance things because of Zion’s “appearance” then it is wholly disproportionate at present. The evil is far more numerous, far more widely planted, far stronger, and securely fastened here than the tiniest shoots of a diminutive Zion. Even the idea of starting a small gathering is not possible at present.”

Source: https://denversnuffer.com/2011/02/zion-is-not-yet/

gathering-to-zion

The Gathering to Zion

Although the time to gather must eventually come, it is not yet. The LDS Church has changed the place of the gathering many times over the years. First it was to Kirtland, then to Missouri, then to Nauvoo, then to Salt Lake and finally, it was apparently rescinded. I know the Lord intends to eventually gather His people. I do not know if it will be in my lifetime, but I hope so. Last year, in response to the difficulties the people encountered in coming up with the Guide and Standard, Denver shared the following:

“Don’t think about this as a time to gather but as a time to prove.

“And don’t think that we are proving who belongs to a group from among all involved, but who would the Lord choose; what few He would gather out from among them. In His wisdom He has elected to delay the next steps in order to select carefully those who can be gathered. What exists now obviously cannot be gathered.

“There is no command to build a temple yet, although we know there will be one given. He doesn’t want the present assortment of people to be allowed to build His house. There is no place to gather identified yet. He doesn’t want the rebellious or froward to know where to go or be to interfere with the peace of that land.”

“When the Lord establishes the foundation of the New Jerusalem, it will require the sacrifice and obedience of the residents. Even if the foundation for that city is laid, if mankind is unwilling to be governed by God, learn from Him and trust His guidance, it is doubtful it will become Zion.”

Source: https://denversnuffer.com/2018/04/how-can-zion-come-from-this/

CityOfZion

“Zion consists of people living in harmony with God. It is defined in revelation as ‘the pure in heart.’ (D&C 97:21.) But prophecy also confirms it will be an actual location, and a place of gathering. The events of the last days have been known since the time of Enoch. … It is a mistake to think of Zion as ONLY the ‘pure in heart.’ It is more. All God’s covenants with the patriarchal fathers will be fulfilled.”

The LDS Church is NOT the Kingdom of God nor is it Zion. It is long been taught that it is both, but this is erroneous. Zion will not be established in Salt Lake City nor will it be in Independence Missouri. They simply don’t fit the scriptural prophecies. An excellent seven-part series from Oct-Nov 2016 reviews the history of the early attempts to establish Zion and why it failed among the Latter-day Saints. I’ve provided the links below.

“This can happen in our day. Or not. One day, some few will be guided by the Lord to accomplish it. But the choice of allowing it to happen is left to us. The journey begins by living the way Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon at Bountiful. Every one of man’s institutions are corrupt. They are led by men and women who rule against the best interests, even the will, of the people over whom they exercise control. They abuse authority and their subordinates lord it over their minions.”

“Zion, like our Lord, will receive little attention or regard from the world. The people who will recognize that its foundation is being laid will be very few. While the Jews, Christians, saints and philosophers look to constantly replenish themselves from the east (Isa. 2:6), God will begin His work quietly in the mountains of the west (D&C 133:30-32). Thus the Lord’s great revolution will eventually overthrow all other kingdoms.”

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing-2/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing-3/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-4/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-5/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-6/

https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-7-conclusion/

signs-follow-faith

Denver will be speaking this Sunday, 3 March 2019 in Centerville, Utah at 3:00 pm. The talk is entitled Signs Follow Faith. Everyone is invited and it is free to the public. It is the first time in over four years that Denver has planned and organized his own speaking engagement. Although not specifically about Zion, it will address the restoration that began with Joseph Smith. Establishing Zion has always a part of that movement. I’m sure there will be something applicable to the topic of preparing for and gathering to Zion.

Additional Resources

Two podcasts with a huge amount of material on the subject:

1. Defending Zion: https://denversnuffer.com/2018/07/26-defending-zion/

2. Growing Zion: https://denversnuffer.com/2018/06/23-growing-zion/

Some of Denver’s early thoughts on Zion (lawnmower example):

https://denversnuffer.com/2010/05/is-it-your-hope-to-be-a-part-of-zion/

 

11 Replies to “A Time of Reflection, Part Six”

  1. Denver Snuffer seems to not understand some things. I assume it is because he is a relative newcomer to the restored Church of Jesus Christ. I honestly think he is making things up. When I listen to him speak, I don’t sense a Christian heart. Be very careful whom you trust.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. While I agree with Observer that Steve can come across as a troll, I’d like to respond to Steve’s comment as he is a long-time reader. Steve’s perception may be more common than we think. Denver is dismissed by many within the LDS Church because he doesn’t have a multi-generational background of family members who were early converts going back to Nauvoo or earlier.

    Nevertheless, I would venture to say he understands the LDS Church better than most who have great-great-grandparents who came across the plains. A simple reading or listening to Denver’s lecture series entitled “40 years in Mormonism” adequately demonstrates a knowledge of scripture and history that stand up to scholarly scrutiny or the “feel test” described by Steven Swapp.

    Steve wrote he thinks Denver is making things up. While I admit some of the things I have read in Denver’s writings may seem new or unfamiliar to those who learned the doctrine in Sunday School, they are sound principles that are based on scripture and revelation. I know it can come across as condescending to ask, but Steve, have you tried taking your concerns to the Lord in prayer?

    Steve also wrote that when he listens to Denver speak, he doesn’t sense a Christian heart. Steve, you were there in St. George when Denver spoke on marriage. So was Carol. She came away from that lecture with a favorable impression, agreeing with just about everything he shared. She had a very different reaction from the Phoenix lecture, but that’s a different story.

    Steve, my point is, I know you were there and heard Denver speak. If someone like Carol can come away telling me she thought what he shared was right on, how come you are saying he doesn’t have a Christian heart? Sometimes the Lord shares things with us that are hard to hear. I am constantly hearing the voice of the Lord encouraging me to repent, to be more pure and holy.

    But I agree with you that we should be careful who we trust. Your advice there is sound. That’s why I studied what Denver had written for over two years before I took any action on what I had read. You’re a good man Steve. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on my blog over the years. God bless you, my friend. I hope you find happiness in following the Lord as He makes Himself known to you. He is extremely kind and understanding of all our mortal weaknesses.

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  3. Tim!

    You incorrectly attributed a timeline to the work of theonewhoiswatching.wordpress.com when it is the work of another author who has a similar understanding of prophecy.

    Just letting you know.

    And as a reminder to you, I plead for you to remember the word of the Lord who spoke emphatically on the location of gathering:

    20 And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints—

    There will be no other place appointed. The Lord hath spoken it. A convoluted series of talks cannot replace what God has already declared.

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing-2/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/10/all-or-nothing-3/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-4/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-5/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-6/

    https://denversnuffer.com/2016/11/all-or-nothing-7-conclusion/

    Why read this when you can have the faith for God’s prophecies to come true as already stated.

    -G.azelem

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  4. A little more detail on section 101:20 and Zion not being moved:

    We read the words of Section 101 to mean that the location remains in Independence, Jackson County. It is possible, however, there is another meaning. That is, the location hasn’t changed, although temporary opportunities existed earlier. It wasn’t built earlier, and will be built, but when it is built, it will be at the place always prophesied for its construction. Zion was to be located on the top of the high mountains. (Isa. 40: 9.) Jackson County has no mountains, no mountain range, no possibility of fulfilling the promised environs for establishing Zion. (Isa. 2: 3.) Make the descriptions “spiritual” if you want, but a mountain setting is clearly required for the prophesied Zion. (Psalms 133: 3; Isa. 52: 7; Joel 3: 17; Micah 4: 2; 2 Ne. 12: 3; D&C 49: 25; among others.)

    Zion was always intended to be built upon the mountain top. (Isa. 30: 17.) Even a valley location in Salt Lake cannot answer to the description given in prophecy. A valley floor is not the “top of the mountain” upon which the beacon will be set. Zion has never been moved. Nor will it. In the same revelation which confirms Zion will not be moved, the Lord spoke of the Saints profaning the land earlier identified as Zion. “For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified. Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires among them; therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances. They were slow to hearken unto the voice of the Lord their God; therefore, the Lord their God is slow to hearken unto their prayers, to answer them in the day of their trouble.” (D&C 101: 5-7.)

    So the location identified for building Zion was lost. It was lost because of the jarrings, contentions, envyings, strifes, lustful and covetous desires. This caused the land to be “polluted” and rendered it unfit for Zion. It is true, however, that in the same revelation making purchase of land in Jackson County was approved. (D&C 101: 70-71.) There is no doubt a glorious future for Jackson County. But that will be by and by. There is a gathering in the tops of the mountains which must precede that. If there is not a gathering in the mountains first, then ancient and modern prophecy will fail. There is to be a gathering within the boundaries of the everlasting hills. (D&C 133: 31-32.) Zion will flourish upon the mountains. (D&C 49:25.) There aren’t any places in Missouri that qualify for this preliminary gathering.

    Source: https://denversnuffer.com/2010/09/remnant-part-iv/

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    1. God did not revoke his prophecy. He knew the Saints would not be successful. He doesn’t say something and wait to see how it plays out. Everything is before God and there’s no and’s, if’s or but’s about it.

      The gathering does not begin in Missouri.

      The mountain of the Lord’s house has been identified.

      The words of men are a distraction and you must filter them out if you are to ever know the holy places wherein the disciples will stand when the desolating scourge goes forth.

      Your post had eighteen mentions to Denver Snuffer and three of D&C which were only included as references by Denver himself. Your perception of Zion is through the lens of an immutable and verifiable word of God.

      -G.azelem

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  5. Gaz: Welcome back to the blogging world. I hadn’t seen you around for a year or more. I’m guessing your opinion of Denver hasn’t changed much during your hiatus. If you happen to be a Utah citizen, why not pop on over to Centerville this Sunday to hear what the man has to say. Maybe you can share a first-hand account. By the way, I changed the link in the post to reflect your authorship.

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