Doctrine of Christ Conference Update


stgeorgearea

Doctrine of Christ Conference

March 18th – 19th 2017 — St. George, Utah, USA

The website at DoctrineofChristConference.com is being updated with the following information on February 27, 2017

About this Conference

The idea for this spring conference came after the September 2016 Boise Doctrine of Christ Conference where an amazing thing happened – people said they felt something entirely new and different there. For the first time, after so many years of hearing about Zion and reading about Zion, some of us found real hope that we really can learn to love each other enough to live together in a city of peace.

That’s what the Doctrine of Christ Conference in Boise gave us, and that’s what we pray that the St. George Doctrine of Christ Conference will become to those who gather there this spring. Every detail of what we have planned and sacrificed in order to make this conference happen is to invite our Lord to be present, again, and to feel that sweet spirit of fellowship that makes life worth living.

Who we are

We are a few friends and believers in the Doctrine of Christ as taught in The Book of Mormon. We are not a formal organization or fellowship.

This conference is non-denominational and is not affiliated with any organized religion. There is no specific group hosting this event – we’re all just individuals contributing our time and effort to make this happen. The heavy lifting for the web site, and technical help with sound and recording comes from some of the Boise folks who did it before and are kind enough to do it again so we don’t have to reinvent the wheel. We thank them sincerely.

Location

We chose Southern Utah for several reasons. One is for the sheer beauty of the place. Another good reason is the warmer spring weather in the Southern Utah area. But proximity to our friends in California, Arizona and Nevada was most important to us, since St. George is about halfway between them and our North Idaho and Canadian friends. Having this conference at the crossroads will, we hope, make it a little easier for those who were unable to make the drive to Boise. God brought us together, we want to stay together.

Spring break is a tough time to find room at the inn in this area. Hopefully, if you haven’t yet booked a room you can still find a place nearby in the surrounding areas of Mesquite, La Verkin, Hurricane, Cedar City, or Parowan.

Please make your reservations ASAP.

With what we anticipate being shared in the presentations at this conference,

and also the spirit which will attend it, we encourage you to expend any effort to come if you are impressed to do so, in spite of difficulty. There is a place provided on the website for you to request help, or to provide help for those who are requesting lodging, but please be aware that options are very limited. The organizers are few in number but will do what we can to assist.

The timing and the date of this conference

Spring Equinox is a time each year when light begins to overcome the darkness

of winter. This is the perfect time to gather again with old friends, to make new friends, and to rejoice in the light of new revelations coming forth in our day. The conference presentations of Saturday March 18th, and Sunday March 19th will provide a natural transition into the actual day of Equinox: Monday, March 20, 2017.

The planners had originally envisioned organizing a conference sunrise service at the Parowan Gap Monday morning, but have decided instead to focus all logistical time and resources on the speaking and Sacrament sessions of the conference. We leave it to individuals and families to create the Parowan Gap sunrise experience on their own. Maps of Parowan Gap and other interesting local areas will be available at the welcome tables at both venues.

The venues  

As we first contemplated organizing this conference and searched for locations, the impression came to go big or go home. We knew we needed to plan for at least a thousand people, probably more since general press releases will go out in Las Vegas, St. George and Salt Lake City.

There are many considerations for a group this size, especially for families with small children. The Cox Center for the Performing Arts seemed perfect. There’s seating for 1,200, an easy access location, good parking, clean accessible restrooms, and great acoustics for speakers and recording. There is a carpeted foyer for toddlers to roam, and piped sound and video to the foyer for any overflow crowd.

The Cox Center is on the campus of Dixie State University and therefore alcohol is not allowed on the premises. It’s a great place for speakers, but we found that there was just no way to do a conference Sacrament service there.

We wanted to be able to provide a place where the Sacrament with wine could be served, so we had to rent a separate “wine friendly” place. That’s the reason there are two venues. The Hilton Garden Inn was chosen because of proximity to Cox, and because the ballroom seats about 400. If needed, we can provide two Sacrament services, one after the other, to accommodate all of those who would like to take the Sacrament at this conference. The earlier Sacrament will start at 6:00 pm, and a second Sacrament service may be available at about 8:00 pm if there are those who were not able to take the Sacrament at 6 pm. Families with small children may want to attend the earlier Sacrament meeting. Although over 1,000 are estimated to attend, and the Cox Auditorium seats 1,200, we will only be able to accommodate 800 for Sacrament service, so please be prompt.

The Hilton charges a $5.00 per bottle (or per canning jar) “corkage” fee for any wine brought from outside, so we are asking that families please do not bring your own wine to this Sacrament meeting. All bread, wine and grape juice will be provided.

We have secured the Hilton from 8 am to 10 pm Saturday as a general meeting and gathering place. After the last Sacrament there will be time available for socializing at the Hilton until 10 pm. Although a welcome table will be available and there will be greeters there off and on during the day Saturday, the Hilton is not available to us on Sunday.

When we got the actual cost figures for renting The Cox Center for the Performing Arts and the Hilton Garden Inn we were nearly overwhelmed. We were trying to figure out how in the world we could possibly do this when a donor stepped up and provided the cash contribution which enabled us to secure both places under contract. Of course that person wishes to remain anonymous, but we hope that when he/she is sitting there in the audience surrounded by all of us experiencing the blessing of being able to witness this event, the magnitude of the effect of that generosity will warm the heart and soul of our donor.

There are significant costs associated with any large event like this. We’re not out of the woods yet and are doing our best to cover the remainder of the costs of the venues, all the Sacrament bread and wine for 800+ people, program printing, etc.

We could sure use your help to cover these costs. Anything you can contribute is needed. On the web page at DoctrineofChrist.com is a place to contribute, if you can. Please know that after basic conference costs are covered 100% of all extra funds will go directly to those in need of financial assistance.

Saturday morning baptisms

We have scheduled 9:00 am for baptisms at Ivins Reservoir, in order to allow time to get back to St. George, dress, eat lunch and make it to the Cox Auditorium for the start of the Saturday conference at 1:00 pm. But baptisms can of course be any day or time which you prefer.

There are other places around the area for living water baptisms. One warm springs pool is close by has a steep trail down to it. (See notes at the end for detail.) Maps and information will be available at the welcome tables, and from contacting the Born of Water web host directly yourself, which we encourage you to do if you have any questions. That link is listed on the website.

Ivins Reservoir is about 12 miles from St. George, and is easily accessible for baptisms at any time. It’s a public place, so there may possibly be others there, but that’s not very likely at 9 am in March. The water is quite refreshing (OK, really cold). There are no public restrooms but we’re planning for a tent to be there for changing and dressing. If you think you may want to be baptized, please bring your own extra towels. Someone with authority from Jesus Christ will be at Ivins Reservoir at 9:00 am to baptize you if you have not brought someone yourself. (There will not be anyone standing by at other baptism sites besides Ivins.) Information on how to get to Ivins Reservoir is posted on the web site.

The Speakers and the Program

After a lot of prayer, and our willingness to let the Lord indicate who the speakers should be – each one of the speakers became an obvious choice to contribute their particular perspective on an aspect of The Doctrine of Christ.

Their topics and speaking order will be listed in a later update. For now we have confirmed the following as speakers; Rob and Quintina BearChief Adolfo, Denver Snuffer, Karen Strong, Jeanene Custer, John Pratt, Chris Hamill, and Paul Durham. There may be others to come.

All conference speakers will be recorded, and their talks will be made available on the Doctrine of Christ Conference website at a later date. Where possible, transcripts of talks will also be made available. Denver Snuffer’s talk may also be available on his website in audio and transcript form at a later date.

All conference prayers will be by invitation. Various musical numbers will be presented, as detailed in the printed programs which will be available at the welcome tables. There will also be congregational hymns. Testimonies at the Saturday Sacrament meeting are by inspiration and invitation. Because of time restraints there will not be an open testimony mic at this conference, but hopefully the time will soon come when that is possible.

Although starting times of each session are fixed, as noted below, we have reserved additional time at both venues in order to make the ending times flexible enough to accommodate the spirit of whatever is being presented.

Please be aware that ending times may go over what is posted in the schedule.

Both Chris Hamill and Denver Snuffer will have Q and A time in the speaking schedule. 3×5 cards for writing your questions for both Chris and Denver will be available at the welcome tables. A submission button tor questions for Denver will be active on the Doctrine of Christ website shortly.

General Schedule

Saturday, March 18

9:00 am       Baptisms

                        Ivins Reservoir

1:00 pm –      Welcome and Saturday Conference Session

4:30 pm        Cox Center for the Performing Arts

Dixie State University

325 S 700 E

St. George, Utah 84770

6:00 pm-       Sacrament Meeting/Testimonies/Music/Social Gathering

10:00 pm      Hilton Garden Inn

1731 S. Convention Center Dr.

St. George, Utah 84970

(435) 634-4100

Sunday, March 19

9:00 am –      Sunday Conference Session

1:00 pm        Cox Center for the Performing Arts

Dixie State University

325 S 700 E

St. George, Utah 84770

There will be an additional information update to the Doctrine of Christ website about a week before the conference with more detail. With what we anticipate being shared in the presentations at this conference, and also the spirit which will attend it, we encourage you to expend any effort to come if you are impressed to do so. We sincerely hope you will come and we look forward to seeing you there.

With love, and in the name of Our Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ,

The St. George Doctrine of Christ Conference

Organizing Committee

 

Conference in Boise


doctrine-of-christ-conferenceIn the end-times events, where you live in the world can make a difference. I’ll not refer to the catastrophic events that are prophesied, but to something simple like a conference, to be held in Boise this coming weekend. I’ve pondered and prayed about attending, either driving or flying. Either way would work. I can afford it and I can take the time off from work for needed travel.

But in my prayers, the Lord has caused me to feel it is not necessary. In fact, when I specifically asked the question, “Should I go to Boise this next weekend?” the response, in the form of the voice of the Lord to my mind was, “It’s up to you.” And then the very next impression was about my wife. How I love Carol and wish to help her deal with the changes that are surely imminent.

I chose to go listen to Denver at Sunstone last month because it was convenient. I was going to be in Northern Utah that weekend anyway for a family reunion. I was grateful to have gone. I was especially pleased to get a copy of the lecture delivered so I could study it in detail. If you have not pondered each of the items in the lecture, I highly recommend you consider doing so.

Events of the End-Times

denver-snuffer-wikipediaI know it is annoying to my dear wife that I consider Denver a friend, even though I do not know him well. Every time I read something he has written I feel uplifted and edified. I feel a desire to know more about the subject and often experience the Holy Ghost opening my mind clearly to understand what he has written and shared. I think he’s a great teacher and appreciate his efforts.

My purpose in writing is not to praise Mr. Snuffer, because he has asked us not to. I suppose in the time of Joseph Smith there were a few newspaper writers and publishers who felt the same way. In our day, the Internet is where most people now get their news and learn greater detail about things that interest them. Just remember, to date, Mr. Snuffer claims to be only a teacher.

I like that. I come from a family of teachers and ministers. I taught in the LDS Church for most of my life and always enjoyed the opportunity to study and prepare, because surely it does take effort to be able to teach others truth, gleaned from the scriptures through the Holy Ghost. All my studies and prayers these days lead me to feel there are dramatic changes about to happen.

Abomination of Desolation

meteorimpact.gifI’ve made up my mind not to attend the conference. Besides saving the money required for the travel expense, I’m confident the material will be made available online shortly afterwards. In other words, while I will miss visiting with some friends (many, actually) whom I know will be there, I am grateful to know I will not miss inspired messages that I am sure will be presented.

I’m not one for rumors. When I read one, I consider the source and then say to myself, “We’ll just wait and see what comes to pass.” Many of you know of the rumored announcement that there will be a major policy change regarding marriage presented at General Conference. It’s all rumor at this point so don’t go getting all upset. But if it comes to pass, consider it a major sign.

Many people have studied “The Abomination of Desolation” and written much about it. I have as well, but have declined to write much. I think I wrote one post many years ago when I decided in my mind what the phrase meant. Maybe we’re all wrong. Maybe we are not as far along in the end-times as some have written and shared. All I suggest is we listen closely to announcements.

Building the City of Zion

IndependenceTempleSignIf the rumored events come to pass, what difference will it make in your life? Will you change anything about the way you conduct your daily activities? Will your prayers change? Will your worship activities be any different? In other words, will you continue to follow the Lord’s very clear commandment that we love others and treat them with kindness and respect? I hope not.

I think that’s the main focus of the spin that will accompany the announcement. It’s not bad. It’s reasonable and understandable, even commendable. But make no mistake in understanding it is a sign of the end-times or last days if it comes to pass. Our goal is to prepare ourselves to be more like the people who inhabit Zion. In fact, this sign indicates we must prepare for Zion very soon.

The Lord will not return with the City of Enoch until Zion is built and prepared. The heavens are open. We have an opportunity to commune with members of the Church of the Firstborn and to obtain knowledge about what the Lord is about to do. Events prophesied in the scriptures are for us to look back and know they were brought about by the hand of the Lord. He will direct this.

Gatherings Should Strengthen Faith

moab-gatheringI’ve written in the past about the location of the City of Zion. Don’t be so sure it is to be where the LDS Church has proclaimed it is to be in the scriptures. As we read in scripture, clearly it will be built in the tops of the mountains but not by a large institution as so many believe. If you want to understand this correctly, study the lecture delivered by Denver in Moab earlier this year.

I will miss being in Boise and hearing the talks, especially those on the agenda for Sunday. We all need to focus more on the Doctrine of Christ – to repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. This is perhaps the primary duty of our life. Coming to hear and understand clearly the voice of the Lord is no small task. It takes constant effort and prayer. But He will help us.

For those who attend the Boise Conference, I pray God’s blessings upon you. As I said in the beginning, it makes a difference where you live in these end-times. Some parts of the world and the United States will see greater destruction than others. Likewise, some locations will play a greater role in hosting events leading up to the return of the Lord. God bless you, my friends.

He Shall Give You Another Comforter


request-baptismI had expected to spend this Saturday in what I anticipated to be an all-day project for work. About a half hour into the project, it became evident I needed to be onsite to accomplish the many required tasks, thus I turned to pondering and study instead.

I began to ponder a running text dialog with a long-time reader. He seemed agitated, troubled and bothered by something that, to me, seemed perfectly clear and with which I was at peace. It had to do with the physical feelings that accompany The Comforter.

Personal Knowledge

I will not quote any scriptures. I simply wish to share my own thoughts and express gratitude to the Lord for teaching me over a lifetime of experience of the reality of the Holy Ghost, and how I experience his influence in my heart and in my mind.

I know when I am being taught by the Lord. Ideas flow into my mind that lead to faith in Christ. They are often accompanied by feelings of comfort and peace. On occasion, the power of the Holy Ghost upon me was so strong as to cause me to be overcome.

Physical Sensation

Yes, I mean with emotion – that sweet peaceful feeling that all is well in spite of the turmoil and trouble around me. The feeling, for me, is both physical and emotional. In others words, the phrase “burning of the bosom” has real significance to me.

There is a tangible warmth in my heart, in the area of my chest that is stronger when I pray, study, serve, bless or participate in an ordinance such as the sacrament or a baptism. I know what I am describing is common to many people, but not to some.

The Presence of Christ

My friend becomes agitated when I try to explain that I have had this gift, and yes it is a gift, for about as long as I can remember. The physical sensation of warmth is sometimes accompanied by a feeling of vibration in my spirit and of an aching in my bones.

I have written previously about being in the presence of Christ, and knowing it. I have heard his voice declare his love for me and ask me to do things that I simply would not have thought to do on my own. I felt free to not do the thing and still feel loved.

Spirit of Revelation

I was also shown what would happen if I did the difficult thing, and knew He would comfort me to endure the consequences of following the prompting. He has been true to His word. There is no doubt I am lonely and yet, I am not. He abides with me.

Does this make sense? I’ll tell you why I think this is so. It is because I exercised faith, was baptized, and believed the Lord’s promise that the Father would give me another comforter. This is the doctrine of Christ: to believe, to be baptized and receive.

Receive The Holy Ghost

Receive what? Receive the comforter. I know I am writing with very simple and basic statements. This is not new to most people who will read this, but to my friend, who has not been baptized, it is agitating. It is not a difficult concept. It simply takes faith.

I don’t want to make this long. With my friend, he keeps wanting to focus on the physical. I guess if you’ve never felt it before, it can be difficult to accept and believe. But the Lord promises we can feel the Holy Ghost before we are baptized if we ask Him.

Baptism is the Gateway

How else could the missionaries do their work? The Lord fulfils His promises. He sends the Holy Spirit to bear record of truth. If we are asked to do something that leads to greater faith in Christ then He will bless us in some way that we each will understand.

How can it be any clearer? Once baptized, simply obey what the Lord said: “Receive the Holy Ghost.” He is real. The Comforter is real. And yes, sometimes, many times, most times for me, I feel a physical sensation of warmth in spite of what others say.

A Constant Companion

My friend, I hope you will read this in the spirit it is intended. I mean you no harm. I have only words to persuade. But when I speak or write the truth, as I have here, God will make it known unto you in plain and simple ways so you can understand it.

God bless you my friend. I know you are desperate. You have told me so. I know you are lonely. You can have The Comforter as your constant companion. I am nearly sixty years old and still continue to feel the sweet peace from this wonderful gift of God.

Loss and Loneliness

I am sorry for your loss. I do not know what it is like to be alone or not have someone I can turn to when I am hurting. I am so, so very grateful to my wife for her loving companionship, but the peace I feel from the Holy Ghost surpasses all understanding.

I forgive you for lashing out in anger and pray God’s love to be upon you. Go get baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. Show the Lord you are serious. Baptism is the sign He recognizes. Once you take that step, I promise you your life will change.

Talking With God

How do I know? Because you are so serious when we discuss the subject. I know you are searching. I know you want this. Prayer is so much easier when the Lord gives you the words to say. This too is a part of the Gift of the Holy Ghost – Inspiration.

My friend, I pray for you every night. I pray you will focus on the things that are important and repent, which means to simply discard the false beliefs you hold in your heart about what God requires of you. He simply asks you to love and trust Him. Shalom.

The Snuffer Interview – Part Two


We Must Remember the Restoration

calling-and-electionEach day I receive additional evidence members and leaders of the LDS Church have forgotten what was once commonly taught at the commencement of the restoration through Joseph Smith. For example, today I received an email from a man who shared his highest aspiration is to have his calling and election made sure. He is seeking it diligently. Sadly, his own family mocks him.

His wife says such a doctrine is false, unnecessary and if it were, the LDS leaders would tell us so from the pulpit each General Conference. She tells their children to ignore their father, that he is mentally unstable. The man serves in a bishopric, doing all within his power to help the Saints remember the teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. Sadly, even his ward members rebuff him.

How could this have happened? Joseph clearly taught, “I would exhort you to go on and continue to call upon God until you make your calling and election sure for yourselves, by obtaining this more sure word of prophecy, and wait patiently for the promise until you obtain it.” (Teachings, p. 299.) Why are so many Saints either unaware of this admonition or believe it is impossible?

Teach From a Position of Knowledge

JosephSmithIt is because we have changed the focus from what we were originally taught to a much watered-down version that is more palatable in an effort to be popular. Having one’s calling and election made sure was at one time a basic teaching in the church. It did not seem strange to the members of Joseph’s day. They delighted to hear him teach this doctrine and encourage them to obtain it.

It is because the leaders of the LDS Church either do not have this knowledge or this belief for themselves. The idea that is commonly circulated among the members that it is wrong to talk about one’s experiences in coming to know the Lord is in itself so very wrong. It is covering up a lack, a deficiency in knowledge of the Lord from the top of the hierarchy to the local leadership.

I thank God He has sent a witness in our day to proclaim this doctrine is true. Yet because the LDS Church has cast him out, the message is being rejected by the lay members as well. Oh, ye foolish people. How can you be so closed-minded and so trusting of your eternal salvation to those who sit in the chief seats instead of trusting in God? Why do they not teach this doctrine?

We Can See His Face in This Life

see-my-faceThe idea that such a teaching is only to be considered or taught in private is foolish. It was taught openly by Joseph. The idea that this knowledge is not milk for the sheep is also foolish and false. Joseph taught this to the newest converts. He taught it to unbaptized, unwashed, and unendowed people in his day. It is a basic part of the restoration and it has been lost because men have erred.

Nephi taught clearly, “For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do. Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.” (2 Ne 32:5-6) The Holy Ghost brings us to Christ.

The Lord added this witness in D&C 93:1 – “Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am.” The objective is to see the face of the Lord in this life. Why is this so hard to understand, accept and to seek?

Focus on the Message, Not the Messenger

doctrine-of-christ1In my interview with Denver, I asked him directly to confirm he had been taught in the same manner as Joseph Smith. He did so. He has openly declared, as did Joseph, his witness of the Savior. He affirmed he has been taught by angels, ancient prophets and by the Lord. Note his answer below in which he deflects these facts and asks us to focus on the message being delivered.

And what is that message? It is that we have forgotten the very basics of the doctrine of Christ. We must remember. Denver spent a year giving a series of ten lectures which he and his wife have been striving to put together in an expanded, detailed and comprehensive book. I wish there was something I could do to help them in their task. But mainly I pray that people will pay attention.

I know Denver’s declarations seem astounding and astonishing. They should not be so. We should be hearing similar declarations from the men who sit in the chief seats of this great church. Alas, it is not so. The Lord can do his own work. When I ask the Lord in prayer what is to be next, the answer comes to wait patiently for the completion of the book to come from the lecture series.

Comments from the Interview

Question Two: In the lecture on Christ, the Prototype of the Saved Man given in Ephraim (6-28-14), you said, “…either I am a liar, and you ought to forget everything I’ve said, or I have been sent by someone greater than I am. If I have been sent and you reject and quibble over the things I declare to you, it is at your peril! It ought to be that way. I ought to be damned if I’m a pretender, and I ought to be damned and rejected by God if I’m saying things about which I know nothing! But I bear witness to you I know what I’m talking about. I have no reason to lie to you. I have no reason to pay to reserve a place to speak to you, and ask nothing of you but to listen. It requires a sacrifice to do what I am doing. I have no other reason to do this than to tell you the truth. Joseph Smith testified to these things and I am come as a second witness. Therefore you now have two proclaiming the same doctrine.”

You bring up Joseph Smith. Joseph testified the heavens are open. He bore witness of God the Father and His Son as two separate and distinct personages possessing glorified and perfected bodies. He also testified he was an instrument in the hands of Christ to bring about a restoration of things hidden since before the foundation of the world. You say you know what you are talking about. Do you mean this in the same sense Joseph Smith declared his knowledge, that it was received through revelation, vision and the visits of angels?

ANSWER (Denver): The answer to that question is “yes.” If that were not the case, I would not be doing anything. What I do, teach and write is a product of contact with heaven. I’ve not elaborated on all the contacts, messengers, and visitations I’ve received because that would be, in my view, very counterproductive. It would suggest I’m more important than I am. God matters and men do not. God can save you and I cannot. The most important issue involves the substance of what I have taught. The most important individual is whoever hears what is taught.

road-to-emmausWhen Christ appeared on the Road to Emmaus to announce His first lengthy post-resurrection message, He did not bother announcing who He was. All He did was announce His message, which was to expound the scriptures beginning with Moses and all the prophets, in order to show how in all things, it was testified that He needed to suffer and He needed to die. All I’m doing is modeling the One I serve. That is by taking Joseph and all the revelations of the Restoration, and showing how in all things, it is necessary for exactly what has, and is happening, to occur in order to fulfill the word of the Lord.

If I started talking about all the visits and visitations, immediately what people would say is, “This is a great man! He has stood in the presence of various angelic personalities! He’s had various interviews and instructions. O my! Isn’t he wonderful?” And the fact of the matter is, I’m not wonderful. I labor for my support, I have a hard time making all of my ends meet. I have a very difficult time meeting all of the responsibilities my wife and I have.  She and I work together on a lot of problems dealing with family, dealing with money, dealing with limited means and a budget, and dealing with just life’s challenges. I am no better than the next man and feel keenly my own inadequacies.

For me to say something other than the content of the message is to inspire either adoration or envy. It’s foolish. It is unnecessary. It would be regarded as boasting by some, nuttiness by many others. It would not advance anything and may well set things back.

But the answer to your question is “yes.” If it were not so, I would keep my mouth shut.

Question Two (part two): As a second witness then, which you claimed you are, how is the Savior working through you to continue the restoration He began through Joseph Smith?

ANSWER (Denver): God could, does, and will work through anyone who awakens and then pays attention. There’s an army of witnesses and awakened individuals that are being assembled by God. It’s required to know Him. I know Him. I have taught, and I know and understand His gospel. The first task is to assure people that He lives and His gospel exists as an authentic method for saving souls.

The second task is to remember the Restoration that Joseph gave his life to commence. We are ungrateful when we fail to remember and practice it. At the moment, there is almost no clear understanding of that gospel. I’m working to set that out in a comprehensive way.

The Restoration has never been completed. There is a great deal prophesied to roll out as part of the Restoration that is not even commenced:

brass-plates-Do we have Zion?

-What about the lost teachings of the brass plates?

-Do we have the rest of the Book of Mormon?

-Do we have the testimony of John?

-Do we have restored knowledge of the Jaradites?

The list could be very long. But the fact that there is a list tells us that the Restoration must resume at some point in order to be completed. We don’t have the Restoration on the table yet. Remarkably we have forgotten what we once had. So the first job is to show that we are grateful enough to remember, and to remember it in a fulsome comprehensive way before God is going to say, “Now I will permit it to move forward.” We haven’t gotten to the point of remembering yet, which is why we ought to be studying a lot more diligently the material that we got in the Restoration. We ignore it at our peril.

Source Material:

Transcript One: http://3tcm.net/a-visit-with-denver-snuffer-transcript.pdf
Note: This version has been reviewed by Denver, missing material added

Transcript Two: http://3tcm.net/tim-malone-Q&A-with-denver-snuffer.pdf

Link to the MP3: http://3tcm.net/Denver_Snuffer_QA_13May2015.mp3
Note: The file is 60MB. It’s best to right-click on the link to download it.

Link to a PDF of answer to question two: http://3tcm.net/question-two.pdf

By Study and Also By Faith


ssalem-thoughtsWhen the Interwebz first began to crawl (1993 – See history of Mosaic), browsers didn’t have “Favorites.” Instead, we created lists of links in raw HTML code and made it our home page. The tradition continues today with blogrolls. I update my list about once a year, sorting it by Alexa rankings. Number 150 on my current list is Russell Anderson’s Thoughts from Salem.

When I first started blogging, I would link to articles on Russell’s previous site, Lightplanet.com because it had a wealth of LDS information I was unable to find elsewhere. Russell sold that site a while back, contacted me about his current site and we began a correspondence. Knowing I was going to be in his neck of the woods this week, we made arrangements to meet for lunch.

I was delighted to discover a kindred spirit with much in common. We are both computer guys, love to study the gospel, have a strong desire to share our research and have a similar journey in what we have concluded. We both started our online efforts with the intent of defending the LDS Church, then came to realize there was something not quite right with the official LDS narrative.

The Church was Rejected

nauvoo-temple-daguerreotypeFor example, in D&C 124 the Lord said the church would be rejected if it did not complete the Nauvoo temple in a timely manner. The Lord desired to restore the fullness of the priesthood which He had taken away. The official church narrative is that the temple was completed. On his website, Russell provides a detailed chronology of the Nauvoo temple showing it was otherwise.

This is a big deal. You’ve really got to think about the implications of what happened in Nauvoo. If the fullness of the priesthood was taken away, and the Lord said it was, then how is it possible the LDS Church can claim to have that priesthood today? The church has gone to great lengths to show the temple was completed, thus the fullness of the priesthood had to have been restored.

Anybody who considers the list of cursings the Lord promised in that section will realize they were each realized. The Lord did not reveal any new ordinances in the Nauvoo temple. He did not reveal things hid from before the foundation of the world. Instead, the saints were moved out of their place by their enemies. They received cursings, wrath, indignations and judgments.

Prophets and the Heavenly Council

The standard LDS interpretation of Amos 3:7 is that God will speak to his people through the prophets, specifically the fifteen men who carry the title of “prophet, seer and revelator.” The current mantra of the church, “follow the prophet” uses this verse as the foundation to support the idea of centralized hierarchical leadership, control and direction for the true people of God.

the-divine-councilNowhere else have I found what I consider to be the more correct interpretation of that verse than on Russell’s site. He presents a logical construction of the elements found in this scripture in such a way that, for me, brought a paradigm shift about how I can recognize a true prophet. He will be introduced to the Heavenly Council by God and will testify of having been so included.

The purpose of the Heavenly Council is not something you are taught about in the standard LDS curriculum. Of course it is referenced in Moses and especially Abraham (the Gods), but nowhere does the church teach that mortals can participate in such a council. Amos teaches us how God calls a prophet – He brings him into the Heavenly Council – then that man receives assignments.

The Doctrine of Christ

One of the purposes of the Book of Mormon is to testify of Christ and to bring us unto Christ. The doctrine of Christ is taught plainly by Nephi in 2 Nephi 32. He plainly teaches repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost and coming unto Christ. The church used to understand and correctly teach that coming unto Christ meant to receive him in the flesh. They no longer do.

carl_bloch_the_christIn verse six we read, “Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.”  Nephi is clearly saying Christ shall manifest himself unto you and teach you much more in person.

The church discounts that claim and instead teaches Nephi’s words were fulfilled when Christ came to the Americas after his resurrection. On his website, Russell presents us with a logical deconstruction of Nephi’s instructions about receiving Christ in the flesh. The purpose of the gospel is to prepare us to receive Christ in the flesh while yet mortal. It can’t be any clearer.

Hearing the Voice of God

The church teaches the higher priesthood can be passed from one man to another. This is not so. The higher priesthood is only received directly from God, by hearing his voice declare it. This is taught plainly in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, especially in Section 84. Others have also explained this fact, but Russell’s page on the subject presents a sound exegesis.

PassingHeavenlyGiftWe tend to overlook the fact that the ordination is simply an invitation to go and get the power. We do NOT receive the higher power of God by ordination. We MUST have the Lord declare it unto us by His own voice out the heavens. No earthly organization controls the power of God. He alone decides who receives it. President Packer understood and taught this a few years back.

In order to have the higher priesthood, we must receive Christ – literally, physically. There is an ordinance involved. Note I said ordinance, not ordination. The ordination invites the man to do all the Holy Ghost teaches him he must do to come into the presence of Christ. The Savior then confers power upon the man. That’s why the penalty for turning from the priesthood is so severe.

A Useful Website for Research

I could go on and on with great examples from Thoughts from Salem but it’s late and my intent was to simply introduce you to the site, express my opinion that it is a valuable resource and invite you to peruse it for some wonderful instructive content. This man has done his research and has provided some unique insights expressed in a logical, methodical and organized manner.

His page on Denver Snuffer is a great source for links that you may not have seen previously. His page containing links to those excommunicated from the LDS church for teaching contrary to the official doctrinal interpretation is noteworthy. Take a look at the Topics page for details on a few Mormon myths, the idea of multiple mortal probations before resurrection and quite a few more.

There is also a valuable page of links to LDS reference material such as older conference talks, periodicals and publications, books, scriptures, Joseph Smith sermons, papers and teachings. See also his page on succession in the presidency for evidence of historical inaccuracies. His post on D&C 136, Brigham’s only canonized revelation is especially revealing.

 

Return To The Restoration


3-Nephi-11-31-40It seems everybody and their dog has offered commentary and opinion on the excommunication of John Dehlin. It was even in the national news. I want to focus on this one statement from his stake president: “…you do not have the right to remain a member of the Church in good standing while openly and publicly trying to convince others that [LDS] Church teachings are in error.”

It probably won’t surprise you to learn I agree with President King’s statement. That’s why I resigned my membership. I no longer believed certain things the LDS Church was teaching. I was and remain convinced some things are being taught in the LDS Church that are not true. Since I no longer met the requirements for membership, we had an amicable parting of ways.

How I Differ From John Dehlin

Although no longer a member of the LDS Church, I differ from John in at least three areas: 1) I believe I am a theomorphic man. In other words, I believe I am made in the image of God. I am His son. He is my Father. I do not believe in an anthropomorphic God or a divine being to whom we ascribe human characteristics. Nor do I believe God is some unseen being. He has been seen.

2) I believe the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price to be the word of God. They are not fiction to me. Too many evidences of the fulfillment of Moroni 10:4 from the time I first learned to read have been burned into my soul. Both books answer so many questions for me. They are unique in fulfilling their purpose of testing our faith in the idea of modern revelation.

3) I do not reject The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as having been established with power and authority from God. It was so established and remained authorized to pass on that authority until recently. Of course, this is the crux of the matter for me and why I resigned. Even in its present state the Lord works through the LDS Church. But He also works in other ways.

Everyone Has A Religion

The LDS Church is full of good people. They are some of the best in the world. But it is not the only place we will find people who believe in God and Christ. There are good people in every faith and religion, including the fundamentalist offshoots of the LDS Church. There are good people who have no religion at all, or so they claim. I am of the opinion everyone has a religion.

I agree with Dr. Scott Peck: “As human beings grow in discipline and love and life experience, their understanding of the world and their place in it naturally grows apace. Conversely, as people fail to grow in discipline, love and life experience, so does their understanding fail to grow. Consequently, among the members of the human race there exists an extraordinary variability in the breadth and sophistication of our understanding of what life is all about.

This understanding is our religion. Since everyone has some understanding-some world view, no matter how limited or primitive or inaccurate-everyone has a religion. This fact, not widely recognized, is of the utmost importance: everyone has a religion.” (Dr. M. Scott Peck, M.D. – The Road Less Traveled, Section III – Growth and Religion, p. 185) Even the atheist or agnostic has a religion. It may not include a belief in a divine being, but it encompasses their life view.

Legal Demand to Stay Off LDS Property

Five months after my resignation, I still attend LDS services. I enjoy the expressions of faith and worship. I enjoy the community. I am grateful they have not restricted me from attending as they have some of my fellow bloggers. If you criticize the LDS Church, look out for that letter from Kirton McConkie. Yes, the LDS Church can and will demand that you stay off their property.

The Church will have you arrested for trespassing. So keep it civil, folks. I know some who leave the Church do not ever want to set foot back in the building again. I have no desire to hurt the missionary efforts of the Church or to discourage anyone from joining the LDS Church if they so desire. The instruction and ordinances found in the LDS Temples are good reason to be baptized.

However, the day will come when that will change. Temple instruction and ordinances will be available in temples other than those built by the LDS Church. The knowledge is fundamental and the ordinances are required. That’s why I still tell my non-LDS friends who communicate with me about getting baptized they should do so. Prepare yourself to enter into the LDS temple.

Don’t Be Afraid of Excommunication

If you are a member of the Church today with questions, doubts or reservations about what is taught in the correlated curriculum, work them out. God works with each of us one on one. He will answer your prayers. He will help you know which path is best for you – to remain active, to resign, to keep quiet or to be vocal about your concerns. Don’t be afraid of excommunication.

If you have children of missionary age, encourage them to serve missions. Teach them to focus on bringing souls to Christ. What greater work is there? What greater joy can one experience than knowing their efforts have been instrumental in helping a fellow traveler in this world find hope in Jesus Christ? Proclaiming the message of the restoration is still a current commandment.

In my letter from the bishop confirming my name had been removed from the records of the church, he pointed out I could be re-baptized after meeting with a General Authority. I had to chuckle to myself. I resigned specifically because I wanted to get re-baptized and knew that would cause disciplinary proceedings to be conducted on  my behalf in very short order.

Let God Direct Your Path

One of the reasons for baptism is to record your name on the records of the Church. When I was re-baptized, I sent my name in to an individual who had volunteered to be a central recorder. The last report I read from her a few months ago indicated the rebaptisms are now in the thousands. A large, large percentage of those individuals also remain members of record in the LDS Church.

If you have come to a change of beliefs about the LDS Church, meaning you no longer believe it is authorized of God, or is no longer teaching the pure doctrine of Christ, ask God what he would have you do with that newfound understanding. Ask Him how He can use you. He will answer. We each have individual gifts and talents. We each have something to offer others in this work.

Faith is Mental Exertion – Through Words

And work it is. I thought I understood faith. I had read this statement from Joseph before, but have lately come to a newfound appreciation that faith is work: “…when a man works by faith he works by mental exertion instead of physical force. It is by words, instead of exerting his physical powers, with which every being works when he works by faith.” (Lectures on Faith 7:3)

I am exercising faith as I write this post. I have pondered and prayed about it all week. I knew I wanted to write it after John’s news conference Tuesday. I knew I wanted to post it this evening. I knew I wouldn’t have time to do so until now. I therefore asked the Lord to bless and inspire me as to what He would have me share here. Thoughts and ideas have come to me all this week.

A New Website To Find A Community

return-to-the-doctrine-of-christWhen people would ask me where they could find a local community with whom they could worship or wanted to find someone nearby who could baptize then, I used to refer them to a site setup specifically for that purpose. It no longer exists. Instead, there is a new site that will help you find local communities and those who have been sustained as authorized to baptize you.

I know the individuals who created the site and who will respond to queries. Obviously there are those who wish to remain members of the LDS Church but also wish to be re-baptized as a sign to God they accept His messenger and His message. My own moral compass would not allow me to do that, but you may be directed otherwise. You can trust the individuals behind this new site.

Leave a comment along with your contact information on the web page and they will help you find the community or an authorized and sustained priesthood holder. I am not currently authorized or sustained to perform baptisms. I do not meet one of the requirements. That day will come. In the meantime, rejoice. The work of the Lord goes forward. Unite yourself to these communities.

Zion Will NOT Come Through An Institution

It will be hard work. You may find it difficult at first if you are used to the rigid and structured format of LDS worship. The purpose of these communities is to partake of the sacrament, to instruct and encourage each other in the gospel of Jesus Christ and to learn to be of one heart and one mind. In other words, to establish Zion – which does NOT come through a large institution.

If you recognize as I did that the principles of truth taught by Joseph have been altered, changed, denigrated, forgotten, or simply replaced by precepts of men, then you owe it to yourself to look into these new communities that are springing up all over the Intermountain West. For those who live outside the Mormon corridor, it may take some time to build up substantial communities.

Act Without Being Deceived

I am continually asked by readers, usually in private emails, “Why do you believe this movement is going to be different from any other offshoot of the LDS Church?” A valid corollary is often, “How do you know you haven’t been deceived in what you have done and are doing?” So many have extended love and compassion in their emails, while others are downright mean and nasty.

The answer remains the same. I worked by faith. I did as we have been taught in the LDS faith. I searched, pondered and prayed. Then I asked God if what I felt in my heart was true. Anybody who has read my blog knows this was not a spur of the moment decision. It took me two years of intense effort in study and prayer to come to the conclusion as to what I should do before I acted.

You Need to Take Action

I want to be a part of this opportunity to reach as many people as possible. My blog is small, has a limited audience, but I offered it to the Lord with all my heart. I consecrated it to His purposes. I believe the falling away of the institutional church was prophesied in the Book of Mormon. I also believe the Lord when He said He would do nothing without revealing it through a prophet.

If you’re new here, go back and read my story. It starts in January of 2012. I documented it here every step of the way. If you’ve been following and have completed your own investigation, then you know it’s time to act. You need to take action. You need to be baptized and offer it to others. The commandment of the Lord to be baptized has been renewed again by Him, today, to you.

To find communities for fellowship, visit: http://fellowshipwith.us/

To find someone to baptize you, visit: http://returntotherestoration.com

 

A Few Notes from the Mesa Lecture


MesaHiltonI tried to do a little live-blogging to my Facebook Group as the lecture rolled forth. I couldn’t keep up. There were too many declarations coming too fast. I should not have been surprised. Carol has been telling me for months, maybe for the past year that the day would come when Denver would make these kinds of pronouncements. Carol is a prophetess. She saw this day.

Largest Audience of the Ten Lectures

The room was set up to accommodate 700 people. I looked around just as it started. It appeared to be full with only a few empty seats. I want to mention again how overwhelmed Carol and I both were at the kind remarks from everyone who introduced themselves saying they read the blog and how much they appreciated it. The Internet has brought together a very eclectic group.

The Lord has Wrested the Kingdom

Denver read D&C 84:27-28 and implied it applied to him, saying John had wrested the kingdom from the Jews. Likewise, he said the Lord had wrested authority from the First Presidency, because they consented to his excommunication – “Amen to the priesthood of that man.” That’s not a quote but was implied. By the way, this is not new. He implied this previously on his blog.

Amen to the Priesthood of that Man

Denver reminded us that the priesthood doesn’t require a church to exist. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The church requires the priesthood. He reiterated how D&C 121:37-42 works. Power in the priesthood is NOT to control. If it is used to control or compel by virtue of dominion then the priesthood or the authority of that man is lost. Persuasion and long-suffering is required.

First Presidency Lost Their Authority

“Denver referred to another visit with The Lord on May 1st 2014. He said the Lord told him a few things about the Church. He said he was one of the “least of these” through which the Lord accomplished a great work. He said it had been completed. Section 121 applied to all Church leaders. He proclaimed the First Presidency lost their authority at the last General Conference.

Church Control of Local Leaders

He retold the story of how Elder Nelson had, contrary to scriptures, been directly involved in his excommunication. He used control and compulsion in demanding his Stake President take the disciplinary action against Denver. He said the church told his Stake President to not reveal the fact they had been involved in Denver’s excommunication – and to hide what had been done.

I Will Bless Them that Bless Thee

Denver said, “The Lord told me, ‘I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee.'” Wow. This quote was quite disturbing to Carol. She turned to me and said, “He equates himself to Joseph Smith.” Of course the scripture reference is Genesis 12:3 as well as Joseph Smith History 1:33 – that *Denver’s* name should be had for good and evil among all nations.

Denver is Not Starting a New Church

“Denver reiterated he will not start a church. He said we do not need a legal organization which can be controlled and corrupted. He did say we do need to organize as a body of believers. He is discussing that now and how it will be accomplished.” Carol called it “Denver’s Community,” but I heard him say “small groups” that would only be geographical in nature – or would they?

Seven Women to Authorize One Man

Denver is now discussing the way to organize the community. He said only women should sustain men in the priesthood. *Applause* This is amazing what we are hearing. I can’t wait to read the transcript. He added the importance of obtaining power to baptize as did Alma. He also quoted JS History 1:69 saying it remains. It takes seven women to authorize a man to minister.

Use Tithing to help the Poor and Needy

He quoted Luke 18:1-14: “I wish I had the money to place an ad in the LA Times, saying ‘If you want the gift of the Holy Ghost came to this place on this date and I will be there to baptize you. Can you imagine the difference this will make among the poor and the needy to be clothed with the gift of the Holy Ghost? We can’t change the world by legislation but we can do this.”

The Right Way to Conduct Worship Services

Denver quoted D&C 50:17-25, and said “you should not waste another three-hour block of time in nonsense each Sunday. If nothing more, get together and read the scriptures or have a prayer meeting, but don’t waste your time on stuff from Deseret or published by the LDS Church.” What a direct slam on the way we conduct church meetings each Sunday. This got applause.

False Churches with False Teachers

“Denver is quoting 2nd Nephi 28, adding comments that this is our day and describing the LDS Church, especially verse 5. Oh, my. Who is going to write this up for the Trib and how soon will it come out?” He pointed out that the LDS Church teaches this today – that the Redeemer has given his power unto men and that he no longer ministers directly to members of the Church.

They Seek deep to Hide Their Counsels

“Denver is saying verses 10 through 15 are directly referring to the Church today. He told the story of the Church coming to get journals of Neal Maxwell after he died because they held details too sensitive to be revealed. They seek to hide deep their counsels. Wow.” He quoted Isaiah 29:13-15 saying it defines the Church today and is about to be fulfilled now in our day.

You Do Not Need Buildings to Meet

“You do not need buildings to meet. Tithing is for the poor. Joseph Smith only built one building – a temple.” “Denver just announced there will eventually be a temple built. The names of those baptized will be recorded. A record will be kept and deposited once a year in the temple.” This is an amazing declaration. There is to be no hierarchy. The church is a community of believers.

Forbidding to Take Sacrament is Anti-Christ

He also said, “Anyone who forbids you to partake of the sacrament in the Lord’s way is anti-Christ.” He also said we should use wine or if necessary for medical reasons, grape juice. The church should kneel with those who bless the Sacrament.” He was very emphatic that anyone who restricts a member from taking the sacrament to compel a course of action is cursed.

Defining the True and Living Church

“This is the day at long last when God can bring to pass that which he intended to have happen before he returns. The true and living church referred to the church in Joseph Smith’s day. That day passed for a season but is now upon us again. Everything from this talk – all ten segments – is being offered to you by God. The work is beginning again.” – Denver Snuffer 9-9-14

Added to the Doctrine of Christ

“The LDS Church no longer preaches the doctrine of Christ,” Denver said, because it has added the question “Do you believe the current prophet to be the prophet of God?” He then said you / we need to take action. You need to be baptized in the correct manner.” The correct manner is to be baptized using the correct words. Believing in the current prophet is not part of the gospel.

Significance of April 2014 Conference

Per Denver, “If you were ordained in the LDS Church before April 2014 you can bless the sacrament and baptize. Otherwise, you should hold a conference among yourselves to sustain those who will minister unto you.” This is an obvious reference to the date he claims to have wrested the kingdom or authority away from the Church. What an amazing claim to make.

Take Action – Be Baptized Correctly

Referring to 3 Nephi 11:20-40, he said, “This day, is this commandment renewed in your ears, in the name of Jesus Christ. You need to be baptized in the correct way, with the correct words – having authority. However improbable or unlikely any of this may seem to you, I testify it is true. It is from The Lord. These are his words. I have delivered them faithfully.” He then left.

A Witness of the Voice of the Lord

Keith Henderson bore a short testimony he had heard the voice of The Lord declare the message that Denver had delivered was true. A sister got up and said she wanted to organize a group. A brother got up and said those without their wives should excuse themselves. I got up and left. Carol had already left after the first hour. She went to the Mesa temple to think. What a day.

Note: too many people have misunderstood why the brother got up and suggested those without their spouses might want to excuse themselves. He was simply saying his wife was home in Idaho with the kids and he wanted to discuss this with her before he proceeded with any action to organize. That’s all. It was very simple. Don’t read more into it than that.

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